Tamriel Foundry

The finesse system and balance between melee and ranged comb

It seems to me that melee will have a distinct advantage in building their ultimates earning more gold and rewards due to being on the front line. I hope they are able to balance this well or everyone will play a melee.

About Haroute:

Haroute hasn't shared anything about themselves.

32 Replies
  1. #21

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts
    schnoffle wrote on January 14, 2013 I do wonder how this will affect certain drops like weapons and armor.  Will certain mobs drop only certain items for the higher finesse players, or will it basically be a random based off the player/mob level?  I could see this being both beneficial and a problem.  If it were random, it would cut down on any open world camping of certain mobs, however, trying to find a certain piece of gear that isn’t crafted will be that much harder.

    From what I've read, it will be two separate systems. There will be the gear the mobs drop, they drp for everyone and you can Need/ Greed/ Pass. And there will be a separate loot only you see that will be based on your finesse. If you play well, you will get both, if you don't then you might not even get the finesse loot, or get a crappy one.

    Now, if the drops are random or if mobs will have a lot table, I do not know.

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  2. #22

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts

    Good to know...havent had a chance to delve into the loot conversations yet.

  3. #23

    aamouts

    Member109 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 11, 2013

    @Atropos i agree, its natural habit, so though i want to hit my target with a bow, i want it to happen because im skilled enough not because targeting did it for me

    I assumed that automatic targeting would determine what you aimed at [enemies only] if you do not indicate a target: not your chances of hitting a target.  I am vision impaired, so I like the idea of auto targeting.  But I think that auto targeting will be inferior to player targeting  because player targeting allows players to concentrate fire on a specific target.

    It raises the issue of the importance of hand/eye coordination in playing a role playing game.  Should the game reward those players who have superior hand/eye coordination? And if so, how much?

  4. #24

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @aamouts i in no way am bragging, i had a ex with vision impairment so i know how hard it can be sometime, im just speaking honestly - i like the feeling when i aim a bow perfectly in skyrim and hit my mark; whether it be fun at a board/bucket etc or a persons head . I have 20 20 in real life so the game draws me into the experience making me feel like a truly made that shot. The thought of auto aiming just takes away that experience from me.

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  5. #25

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 15, 2013

    @aamouts i in no way am bragging, i had a ex with vision impairment so i know how hard it can be sometime, im just speaking honestly – i like the feeling when i aim a bow perfectly in skyrim and hit my mark; whether it be fun at a board/bucket etc or a persons head . I have 20 20 in real life so the game draws me into the experience making me feel like a truly made that shot. The thought of auto aiming just takes away that experience from me.

    You have to think from the RvR perspective though. If there is no auto targeting and you have to aim everything, it becomes really hard to play as ranged on big battles, especially if your FPS drop. People will be aimlessly shooting at everything to see if they hit something, it is a mess, hard to coordinate, and makes more casual players feel useless and frustrated. In small fights FPS style archery would work, but in PvP, people will most likely be using the third person camera, because you can see your surroundings. Using the first person camera in PvP will be a disadvantage. If they forced all ranged classes to use that view in order to shoot properly and aim efficiently they would be severely limiting ranged classes in PvP. With auto-targeting, the "over-the-shoulder" camera is enough to get the precision you need.

    What takes away from your experience helps the casual player be happier. MMO rule number 1, the casual public always wins. Or better put, the almighty dollar always wins :)

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  6. #26

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @LGAllastair i realize that but id rather it be like skyrim or a FPS personally just because of how i like to play, i like a challenge and the PvP would just make you feel right in the combat of the game.. Auto aiming just makes me feel silly. Especially considering i won't be doing 3rd person view. But thats just me

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  7. #27

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 15, 2013

    @LGAllastair i realize that but id rather it be like skyrim or a FPS personally just because of how i like to play, i like a challenge and the PvP would just make you feel right in the combat of the game.. Auto aiming just makes me feel silly. Especially considering i won’t be doing 3rd person view. But thats just me

    I think many TES fans from the single player game have this in mind, they will only use first person, or at least they intend to. I personally think these people won't last long in the game (no offense to you). They will either conform that the 3rd person view will be needed to play well and then start using it or they will stop playing. Another MMO rule: if there is a tool that gives you an advantage in place, whoever chooses to not use it is, and I quote the avarage raid leader, "a fucking noob and needs to l2p and get out of my group/ raid".

    The community marginalizes people who do not use what is the norm to use. The moment you make a mistake on a fight and even remotely hint that you were not using 3rd person view (even a PvE fight) you will certainly have problems.

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  8. #28

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @LGAllastair i honestly don't care, for me its just the experience of the game and first person brings me in there, if i die from a back stab than i die, i like my games to be more realistic than like your hovering over your person like a spirit.

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  9. #29

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 15, 2013

    @LGAllastair i honestly don’t care, for me its just the experience of the game and first person brings me in there, if i die from a back stab than i die, i like my games to be more realistic than like your hovering over your person like a spirit.

    It's ok, you have all the right of not caring, you pay for the game, you play as you wish. But expect to be marginalized and judged for it. It is how MMO communities work. So the same way you have the right to play as you wish, guilds and groups have the right to judge you for it. Obviously, if you perform well enough when doing group content in a way that the group can succeed, it won't be such an issue, just like clickers and keyboard turners sometimes can perform well enough to do the job, even though those two things are clearly more limiting than key binding and mouse turning. But given the normal MMO mechanics where you have to dodge from mobs coming from the sides (or adds as they are called), avoid flame walls, holes on the floor, position yourself away or close to your allies etc. There is NO WAY first person playing will be as efficient as third person, it is a fact. Just like keyboard turning is not as efficient as mouse turning, and just like clicking skills is not as efficient as key binding them and pressing the keys.

    How people will respond will depend on who you associate with and what you are trying to accomplish. I doubt it will make a difference if you mainly RP, but if you intend to raid or PvP seriously be prepared to suffer some justified discrimination.

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  10. #30

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @LGAllastair yeah i know, might end up soloing and kicking ass playing traditionally ;)

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  11. #31

    aamouts

    Member109 Posts

    @LGAllastair i realize that but id rather it be like skyrim or a FPS personally just because of how i like to play, i like a challenge and the PvP would just make you feel right in the combat of the game.. Auto aiming just makes me feel silly. Especially considering i won’t be doing 3rd person view. But thats just me

    [/quote]

    I agree with Panterra that aiming and operating in first person mode helps to immerse one in the game.

    I also agree with LGAllastair that third person view is more efficient (and even more so in a PvP environment).

    To paraphrase LGAllastair: you pays your money and you takes your choices.

     

  12. #32

    Stormcrow

    Member22 Posts

    It will probably be very simple and extremely complicated in the same time.

    Simple because it will earn you finesse if you do your natural job right (like wrecking havoc among the oppfors' ranks as a melee, block and dodge, avoid aoe ; or as an archer doing as much stealthed hits or crits as possible, as much ranged hits as possible during the shortest possible time period; or as a healer to dispatch as much aoe healing as possible or for example maybe heal 500% of a single allied target in a given timeframe and so on and on);  and extremely complicated in the same time, the finesse calculation consisting in an endless queue of math operations meant to reflect as accurately as possible a real world environment. After all, what we see is just zeros and ones. ;)

    You will never be rewarded for great contribution to your faction's victory or any kind of vital support that is not solidly quantifiable. That is sad, but we'll have to live with it I guess.

    However I'm not too worried about the system's balance, as much as the implementation and the time that the fine tuning will rob away from the actual playtime, after the release. They (Zen) must have a clear idea of what and how they will do since they announced it... like 365 days before the release :).

    The question is: will the system satisfy the great masses of players coming from "many different, but still all the same" mmos out there?

    We'll see. Can't wait.

    I'm affraid it's not about the hardcore TES fans anymore. Quote me if I'm wrong here.

    PS: Otherwise i very much agree with LGAllastair's posts, especially #15 (except the first sentence :))

    ”When cities burn and armies turn and flee in disarray, cowards will cry: ’Tis best to fly, and fight another day’. But warriors know in their marrow, when they die and fall, ’tis best to have fought and lost than not to have fought at all.”

    ”You stole three deaths from The Red God… We have to give them back.”

Respond

Sorry, you must first log in or register for a Tamriel Foundry account before you may comment on articles!

Please respect the Tamriel Foundry Code of Conduct when commenting on articles.