Tamriel Foundry

Penetration Values

[spoiler title = "Change Log"]

8/14/17 - Updated values for HotR

7/13/17 - Re-working Intro

2/10/17 - Minor updates

12/17/16 - Sets added

9/29/16 - Reformatted and updated for One Tamriel

[/spoiler]

Ladies and Gents,

With the upcoming HotR changes to various traits, it will be more important than ever to consider the role that penetration plays in DPS builds.  I have compiled here a list of the various sets and how much penetration they currently provide.  I will be updating this as new sets become available, and as Mundus Stones and weapon traits becomes balanced.

 

Physical & Spell Penetration

Base Penetration: 100

Major Fracture/Breach: 5280

Lover Mundus 7 Divines: 4196

Alkosh x5: 3010

2H Sharpened Trait OR Lover Mundus (0 Divines): 2752

Infused & Torug's Crusher Enchant: 2740

Infused or Torug's Crusher Enchant: 2108

Crusher Enchant: 1622

1H Sharpened Trait: 1376

Minor Fracture/Breach: 1320

 

Physical Penetration Only

Twice-Fanged x5: 4300 (when 5 stacks applied)

Spriggan x5: 3450

Sunderflame x5: 3440

Night Mother's Gaze x5: 2580

Kra'gh x1: 1487

 

Spell Penetration Only

Concentration Passive: 4884

Spinner's x5: 3450

Flame Blossom x4: 1487

 

All dungeon enemies and bosses have 18.2k resistances, so plan accordingly!

 

Happy Gaming,

Duck

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37 Replies
  1. #21

    Simeion

    Member4 Posts

    Since 1T resistance values have changes for some mobs and bosses, as far as I can tell all enemy resistances should be sitting around 18,200.  Question I have if any one can answer the dual wield passive "Twin blade and blunt" gives 10% penetration per mace equipped,  Where is this configured in the application or the mathematics of the debuffing a target.  If it is at the front or base (18200) each mace is worth 1820 penetration; or is it 10% of remaining resistance after debuffing is applied, which mean this number changes depending how resistance the target has after being debuffed.

     

    The only source I can find is an addon the give you mitigation percentages base on the raw number, with dual maces the addon suggest you get 20% up front, and opinion of mine based on how it reads (20% +insert debuff total here).  The way it is written on the character sheet in the UI suggest the penetration is 10% up front before debuffs.

  2. #22

    mrowmrif2

    Moderator4609 Posts
    Simeion wrote on October 17, 2016

    Since 1T resistance values have changes for some mobs and bosses, as far as I can tell all enemy resistances should be sitting around 18,200. Question I have if any one can answer the dual wield passive “Twin blade and blunt” gives 10% penetration per mace equipped, Where is this configured in the application or the mathematics of the debuffing a target. If it is at the front or base (18200) each mace is worth 1820 penetration; or is it 10% of remaining resistance after debuffing is applied, which mean this number changes depending how resistancethe target has after being debuffed.

    The remaining - so essentially worthless unless you are running 0 penetration (which is dumb since sharpened daggers is fantastic).  And normal world mobs are all ~9000 resistances.  Only world bosses, dungeon mobs and bosses have 18.2k.

  3. #23

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    It's in between actually, after armour debuffs but before flat penetration. Armour debuffs are like Major Breach/Fracture and Night Mother's 5 piece. Examples of Flat Penetration include base (100), Piercing and Spriggan's 5 piece. The formula for Mitigation is as follows

    None

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  4. #24

    mrowmrif2

    Moderator4609 Posts
  5. #25

    Duckbutta

    Member243 Posts
    mrowmrif2 wrote on October 21, 2016

    Made this and thought of you Duck…

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/stamina-nightblade-pve-dps-guide-for-dark-brotherhood/page/34/#post-664618

    Lol that's awesome (and probably true)! Thanks for thinking of me.

    Daggerfall Covenant [NA/PC] - Requiem | Elder Scrolls Exchange | Nightfighters | Legion of the Bloodworks

     

    Smush M’gush | Orsimer | Stam DK DPS  [Trials Guide]  [vMA Guide]                                             Critne

  6. #26

    GrungeMPK

    Member41 Posts

    Rest in peace, oh grateful Precise...

    You, that help so many newbies like me, that don't have so much time to play and have extremely bad luck on drops, making our dps a little better with our trash crafted sets on Cyrondill. At least, you helped us to have the feeling of almost being at the same level of those players with top dungeon-dropped sets...

     

    Serious now, as said before, I really think that they will revamp all the less used treats in the next months, it's really needed. It's very boring to see everyone using the same stuff, reminds me diablo 3 :/

    Grungebr ( PS4 / NA ) – Altmer Templar

    Tolkienn ( PC / NA ) – Dunmen DragonKnight

    For the Pact!

     

  7. #27

    Duckbutta

    Member243 Posts

    Update: sets added

    Daggerfall Covenant [NA/PC] - Requiem | Elder Scrolls Exchange | Nightfighters | Legion of the Bloodworks

     

    Smush M’gush | Orsimer | Stam DK DPS  [Trials Guide]  [vMA Guide]                                             Critne

  8. #28

    Deuteriumhydroxid

    Member6 Posts

    Three Questions:

    1. can we resurrect precise?

    2. are there any realistic scenarios where precise is BiS?

    3. does Precise change the ideal gearing choice regarding sets that give damage stats (spellpower, Max Magicka, critchance, crit dmg) and sets that proc damage (Monstersets)? (Meaning 2 5-piece sets instead of Monsterset + 5pc + Jewelry)

  9. #29

    Amasuriel

    Member27 Posts
    Deuteriumhydroxid wrote on June 10, 2017

    Three Questions:

    1. can we resurrect precise?

    2. are there any realistic scenarios where precise is BiS?

    3. does Precise change the ideal gearing choice regarding sets that give damage stats (spellpower, Max Magicka, critchance, crit dmg) and sets that proc damage (Monstersets)? (Meaning 2 5-piece sets instead of Monsterset + 5pc + Jewelry)

    Basically no. I just went through this exercise again trying to make a crit nightblade build that didn't suck (since NB have Hemorrhage, which is another 10% crit damage), but it just doesn't work. It's not as far away as before, but the reality is that 7% crit gives at best around 3.5% DPS. The amount of points into Erosion you need to make this better than sharpened, you can get more than 3.5% DPS.

    Maybe when the CP cap is 1000 or so it will become worth it, because you will have 75 in all the useful CP already and still have 75 extra for Erosion without giving anything up. In the meantime, unless you can rely on near 100% crusher and alkosh uptime, you will lose some DPS with precise vs sharpened, just not as much as before.

     

  10. #30

    DonkeyJote

    Member36 Posts

    Okay, how about now? Haha. From the PTS notes, certainly looks like precise is trying to make a comeback.

  11. #31

    Duckbutta

    Member243 Posts
    DonkeyJote wrote on July 10, 2017

    Okay, how about now? Haha. From the PTS notes, certainly looks like precise is trying to make a comeback.

    Ya, about that. . . we'll have to see, but you can probably just totally disregard this OP now lol.

    Daggerfall Covenant [NA/PC] - Requiem | Elder Scrolls Exchange | Nightfighters | Legion of the Bloodworks

     

    Smush M’gush | Orsimer | Stam DK DPS  [Trials Guide]  [vMA Guide]                                             Critne

  12. #32

    DonkeyJote

    Member36 Posts

    Using Asayre's formulas (and obviously using new values), I think Sharpened still wins out by a solid amount over precise overall, and using Sharpened/Thief is roughly equivalent to using Precise/Lover in terms of damage output.

  13. #33

    garethsarge

    Member4 Posts

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1RE0diGUGyD2RazR_VVarpRgIfIcPjBYAboRSFaxbAFM/edit?usp=sharing

    -Quick Penetration Calculator - Let me know if any values are incorrect

  14. #34

    MaccB55

    Member11 Posts

    does anyone know how much of this information is still correct & useful? I have reach the point in the game where I need to start learning things like this in order to pull the most out of my build as posts.

    MBF


  15. #35

    Latin

    Moderator1307 Posts
    MaccB55 wrote on April 15, 2018

    does anyone know how much of this information is still correct & useful? I have reach the point in the game where I need to start learning things like this in order to pull the most out of my build as posts.

     Still valid. You can check the ingame tooltips to find that they should correspond to the values here.

    But as far as optimisation goes, you should consult with your regular trial leader to see which sets you should run for the benefit of the group.

    e pluribus unum

  16. #36

    GreasyDave

    Member145 Posts
    Latin wrote on April 16, 2018
    MaccB55 wrote on April 15, 2018

    does anyone know how much of this information is still correct & useful? I have reach the point in the game where I need to start learning things like this in order to pull the most out of my build as posts.

     Still valid. You can check the ingame tooltips to find that they should correspond to the values here.

    But as far as optimisation goes, you should consult with your regular trial leader to see which sets you should run for the benefit of the group.

     Hi, I'm returning to the game after a 2 year abscence. When I left penetration was the meta for stam builds (non-trial) - everyone had sharpened weapons and for solo or dungeons Spriggans , twice fanged etc were recommended (not for trials). I've been browsing through current build guides and gear recommendations and noone is recommending Twice fanged, Spriggan's or sharpened weapons anymore, WEapons seem to be infused and nirnhorned and armour is more focused towards damage or sustain. So, if the 18k resistance hasn't changed, what's happened to cause the shift? I understand why there's a focus on Stam sustain but not why penetration seems to have dropped down the priority list?

  17. #37

    Latin

    Moderator1307 Posts
    GreasyDave wrote on Aug. 29, 2018
    Latin wrote on April 16, 2018
    Collapse QuoteMaccB55 wrote on April 15, 2018

    does anyone know how much of this information is still correct & useful? I have reach the point in the game where I need to start learning things like this in order to pull the most out of my build as posts.

     Still valid. You can check the ingame tooltips to find that they should correspond to the values here.

    But as far as optimisation goes, you should consult with your regular trial leader to see which sets you should run for the benefit of the group.

     Hi, I'm returning to the game after a 2 year abscence. When I left penetration was the meta for stam builds (non-trial) - everyone had sharpened weapons and for solo or dungeons Spriggans , twice fanged etc were recommended (not for trials). I've been browsing through current build guides and gear recommendations and noone is recommending Twice fanged, Spriggan's or sharpened weapons anymore, WEapons seem to be infused and nirnhorned and armour is more focused towards damage or sustain. So, if the 18k resistance hasn't changed, what's happened to cause the shift? I understand why there's a focus on Stam sustain but not why penetration seems to have dropped down the priority list?

     With the increasing CP cap and the diminished return for the higher number of points allocated to the other CP passives, you would now rely entirely on either Piercing or Spell Erosion to bridge the gap between the group debuff available and the 18200 penetration threshold (for dungeons and trials), and thus allowing you to use other damage sets and traits instead. Also, infused trait weapons when used with enchantments are now very powerful because of the reworked effect of the trait.

    e pluribus unum

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