Tamriel Foundry

[PvE] Sanyarin'Donnerblatt the Magicka NB by @Nichts [v

Introduction

Hello everyone,

the magicka Nightblade is the gem of all classes in ESO, even if it is definitively not the strongest.

It has this fascinating roguish, bloodmagical character, which I really like.

It is obvious, that I am not the best Nightblade out there, but I hope you enjoy this guide.

The main goal is to introduce new players to this awesome class, and to be thought-provoking for experienced players.

This guide is written based on my experience, trial and error and occasionally some calculations.

Nevertheless the main resource is knowledge and experience from other players.

I can't thank @Mashinate, @Nosferatuzod and @xBlackroxe enough for their work on tamrielfoundry.

Also many thanks to Sufferas and Mr_Bombastic, the NBs of eXceed.

Special thanks to @Priox, some random Templar living under a bridge in Riften,

and tyrant84 the first magicka NB I met, and who changed Sanyarin'Donnerblatt from stamina to magicka.

Changelog

2.7:

Added Sceenshot vMoL 2. Boss.

 

Gear

Optimal Gear

If you have the same Maelstrom luck, you should consider Choice 2.

Choice 2

And since I already wasted too much time and gold to get these Staffs, I play

Current Build

Gear Discussion

  • Staffs: Since I don't have a Maelstrom Staff with the sharpened trait, I could only compare Staffs with the trait defending. But I think the only way a Maelstrom Staff can beat Choice 2 or the current setup is in combination with a Moondancer / Aether Infernostaff. If you don't have a Moondancer / Aether Staff you will either have a bar with a setless Staff, or a bar with only 4 pieces of the 5-piece-Set. (Keep in mind, that the fire-glyph also deals ~0.75k dps.)
  • Sharpened: Even before the Warhorn-Nerf I got better results with sharpened, instead of precise.
  • 5 piece Sets: Scathing Mage > Julianos at approx 60% uptime of SM. I tested this and usually got between 65 and 75% uptime. Therefore I would prefer to use Scathing Mage over Julianos, but can't due to RNG. Twice Born Star is worse than Julianos after the Warhorn-Nerf. Then there is Burning Spellweave Nosferatuzod had an uptime of 60% in his last video, which equal 360 SD. This value is the same as Scathing Mage with an uptime of 70%. But Nos uses two additional fire damage sources: Scalding Rune (see Ability Section) and Grothdarr/Ilambris (see below).
  • Monster Sets: Molag Kena is a strong Monster Set, but you have 3 other options: Grothdarr, Valkyn Skoria and Ilambris. The fact that you are forced to stay in melee range using Grothdarr disqualifies that monster set. And since a NB can use Molag Kena in AoE, due to Syphoning Attacks, Grothdarr is not better in AoE. The second set Vakyn Skoria is just the worse but ranged option for Grothdarr players, which tells everything about that set. And last but not least Ilambris. Actually this set sounds interesting in combination with a Lightning Staff.  I do have to do more tests with that monster set. In fact I do have a Maelstrom Lightning Staff, so that might be an option as well.
  • Moondancer/Aether 5% Bonus (Minor Slayer): It is worth mentioning, that the additional damage an Execute Ability deals if a target is below x% health does not get this 5% Bonus. But since the Impale deals roughly 10% of the total dps, I can life with that bug.
  • (5/1/1): Here nothing has changed. You want to have all bonus magicka from the Undaunted Passive Undaunted Mettle.
  • Glyph:  Spelldamage > Fire.  Hence, if you play with a Maelstrom Staff, use SD on the other staff.   If you play without Maelstrom Staff, use the Fire-Enchant on the offbar.  For Daedra-Boss-Monster you exchange this with the daedric enchant.

 

  • Fourth Set Option: If you don't have Kena, Maelstrom, Moondancer etc. there is a fourth option available: 5*Julianos / 3*Willpower / 3*Moondancer.
  • Fifth Set Option: And a fifth option: 1*Kena / 5*Julianos / 5*BSW or Scathing. This option is actually very cheap, since you can craft Julianos Staffs. And you need only one piece of Molag Kena with any armor type (since you can craft 2 pieces med/heavy Julianos) and you only need BSW / Scathing Jewellery, which is "easy" to get compared to Staffs.  A guild mate plays with that setup and get's good results.

 

Stats with Bufffood, unbuffed

 

Potions / Bufffood

  • Bufffood: Max HP, Max Magicka
  • Essence of Spellpower: Restore 7,5k Magicka, Increase Magickareg by 20%, Increase Spelldamage by 20%, Increase Spellcrit by 20%¹

¹ Lorkhan's Tears, Lady's Smock, Cornflower, Water Hyacinth. The crit buff does not stack with Inner Light. But the finally fixed this  bug. So you can equip inner light on one bar, and use potions to get the spellcrit on the other bar.

 

Mundus

 

Skills

The full list of all skills and passives can be found on Skillfactory .

On that page you also get a description of each skill.

The choice of skill placement¹ is based on three basic rules.

  • Rule 1: One Siphoning Ability has to be on each bar, because of the passive Magicka Flood, which increases your max. Magicka by 8%.
  • Rule 2: One Assassination Ability has to be on each bar, because of the passive Hemorrhage, which increases your Crit Damage by 10% (+2% Crit Chance for each skill.)
  • Rule 3: One Destruction Staff Ability has to be on each bar, because of the passive Ancient Knowledge, which increases your ST Damage by 8%².

¹ The placement of Bar 1 and Bar2 holds true with the ideal gear equipped, i.e. Maelstrom Staff on Bar 2.

² In singletarget I roughly deal 45% damage from single target abilitys, 35% from AoE and 15% from Light Attacks and 5% from other sources. Since the main goal is to kill the boss fast, while adds should die from ground DoTs, I chose Inferno Staffs over Lightning Staffs. (But I have to do more tests with Lightning Staffs.)

 

Skill Discussion

Bar1
  • Sap Essence [1]: Nice AoE-Spam, with good range. I usually replace this skill with a shield, e.g. for vMoL hm or vMoL 1st boss.
  • Force Pulse [3]: ST-Spam. Use this skill whenever you don't have to recast a DoT.
  • Merciless Resolve [2]: Some time ago this was a very good skill. Now, with the recent nerfs, I feel like this is a wasted skillslot. On average 2*FP deal only ~2k less damage than one Assassins Will. 2*FP deal MORE damage than one Assassins Will. The only reason why this skill is still in my build is Minor Berserk and Rule 2. Minor Berserk should not be an argument if you have good support. But since we don't have an uptime of Combat Prayer >80% (especially in vMoL hm), I don't see a good replacement for this skill. Rule 2 only applies because I like to have Impale and Soul Harvest on the same bar.
  • Siphoning Strikes [1]: Mandatory with Molag Kena. Still nice to have if you don't play Molag Kena.
  • Inner Light: Additional 7% Max Magicka.
  • Shooting Star: Additional 2% Max Magicka and Main-Ultimate.
Bar2
  • Crippling Grasp [1]: ST DoT with high damage. Additionally, this skill grants a 20% speedbuff.  8 Seconds Uptime.
  • Impale [2]: Execute. Used instead of Force Pulse below 25%.  The Bonus damage does not get Minor Slayer from Moondancer / Aether.
  • Twisting Path: AoE DoT with moderate damage. Path got buffed by 30% in the last patch, which makes it "ok" to use. It has 11.5 Seconds Uptime, which makes the rotation uncomfortable.
  • Blockade of Fire [3]: AoE DoT with very high damage. Usually one of the top 3 dps entrys.  8 Seconds Uptime.
  • Inner Light: Additional 7% Max Magicka.
  • Soul Harvest [2]: "Execute Damage Enhancer". This Skill gives you a nice damage boost during the Execute Phase, or if you have time to put it between two Shooting Stars. There are two reasons this skill is on Bar2 and not Bar1: First, I like to have both Impale and Soul Harvest on the same bar for easy access during the execute phase. (All the DoTs are on that bar as well.) Second, the ulti gain from Soul Harvests Passive does only work if you deal the killing blow on an enemy. Which rarely happens in Boss fights.

 

The numbers in []-brackets are the rules stated above. On each bar, one of has to be set.

Other Skills
  • Elemental Rage [3]: Since they fixed the problem concerning fluent weaving, I usually use Elemental Rage over Meteor.
  • Veil of Blades: Tell a Templar to use Nova.
  • Funnel Health / Swallow Soul [1]: The weaving with Force Pulse is more fluent. Additionally, sometimes Lightattacks are not recognized with FH/SS-weaving. Which is not good, since Lightattacks are a huge source of dps, and they trigger Molag  Kena.
  • Flame Clench [3]: This skill is up high on my ToDo-List. It is a ST DoT with an uptime of 8sec, that fit perfect with WoE and Grasp. In total this skill deals more damage than one Force Puls. Hence, it pays off using it instead of a Force Puls (every 8 seconds). This would be the replacement for Sap Essence in ST, or Merciless Resolve. This skill fits very nice into Noz  BSW-Build. There is only one drawback: You will have an additional {138 Magicka/sec * ( 1*[Kena Downtime] + [1.33 * Kena Uptime])} drain.  With an uptime of (at best) 70%, this leads to an additional drain of 170 Magicka/sec.
  • Scalding Rune: ToDo-List.
  • Rearming Trap: The biggest disadvantage is that you get forced in close combat. Most of the time I like to stay in mid-range, in the row behind melee players. Additionally one healer uses Twilight Remedy, so occasionally you get that buff as well. And furthermore, the placement take experience. Not only in space, but also in time, e.g. if Rakkhat decides to change the platform. If the trap only activates once, it is not worth placing.
  • Dark Shades: This skill will only give you ~1k dps, which is very low compared to any other skills. The damage debuff is nice, but not necessary. The only reason to use this skill would be using Necropotence, which is exactly the reason I don't like to use Necropotence. I am pretty sure they fixed shadows stealing SPC(?).
  • Reapers Mark [2]: In AoE this might be a fun skill to use, since you gain a 25%/5sec damage boost if the target dies. But I never tested that. I don't see this skill as useful in most boss fights.
  • Elemental Ring / Pulsar[3]: Might be a replacement of Sap Essence. Both deal the same damage and have the same cost. Advantage: Fire Damage + effect. Disadvantage: Lower Range (Radius 6 intstead of 8. Which means only ~55% Area.)

 

CPs

  • Blue: Elemental Expert (100), Elfborn (22), Staff Expert (3), Thaumaturge(75)
  • Green: Magician (100), Arcanist (100)
  • Red: Elemental Defender (80), Thick Skinned (22), Hardy (64), Bastion (14), Quick Recovery (20)

 

Playstyle

If you read guides, you will often find instructions like [skill1]-LA-[skill2]-LA-... - start again.

I don't have such a guideline for my rotation, not because it is better, but because I am lazy :D

There are some basic rules.

Above 25%
  • Weaving: Put a Lightattack (not Mediumattack) between each skill. Try to put a Lightattack into a bar swap as well. This will give you a Kena uptime between 60-65% with best at 73% and worst at 55%.  Lightattacks are one of the biggest sources of dps.
  • DoTs: Keep your DoTs up all the time.
  • Merciless Resolve: Shoot it, but don't recast it as soon as possible. Recast it, when the buff runs out.
  • Shooting Star: Use Shooting Star when you reach 200 ultimate. Try to time it, such that Molag Kena is off. If you don't do this you will loose ~3,5% dps. Try to activate Molag Kena while Shooting Star is in the air.
  • Potions: Trink after using ultimate. This will result in ~1.2% dps gain.
  • Force Pulse: If you don't have to use any other skill use Force Pulse.
Below 25%:
  • Weaving: As above.
  • DoTs: Keep WoE and Crippling Grasp up, if they will run for the full duration of 8 seconds. If you use Scathing Mage, keep Twisting Path up as well; if not, don't.
  • Merciless Resolve: Activate it once >25%, and use Assassins Will. Don't recast it.
  • Ultimate: If you have >~125 Ultimate save for Shooting Star. Otherwise do the following: Place DoTs, use Soul Havest, do Impale-Weaving for 6 seconds. Replace DoTs and return to the normal "Execute-Rotation". From now on do this "Soul Harvest Rotation" whenever you have 70 ulti.
  • Potions: As above.
  • Impale: Replace each Force Pulse cast with Impale.
Start:

Merciless Resolve - Siphoning Attacks - Inner Light - fully charged Heavy Attack on bar 1

Then we do what "above 25%" tells us: While Lightattack-Weaving: Shooting Star - WoE -  Crippling Grasp - Twisting Path. (If Scathing Mage, then Twisting Path first.)

 Other (useful) Information:
  • Medium Weave: Since the last change of CPs, you want to have 75 CP in Thaumaturge for 10% increased damage against off balance enemies. This can be achieved by a shock blockade (placed by healer or offtank).  If you hit an enemy (mob or boss) that is off balance with a medium (or hard) attack, you will remove the off balance status. So never use a medium weave, with some exceptions. (e.g. start of the fight, or big switch 2nd boss nMoL)

Boss Monsters

I have been on a break for 3 month, and the following screenshots are made in the first tries of my first raid after the break. I hope to capture better results for the 2nd and 3rd boss, soon.

Numbers in [] are the percentage of boss damage (i.e. singletarget).

Update: Added a second hoster for the screenshots ...

vMoL
  • Zhaj'hassa the Forgotten:

    46k (2) [80,1%]

    Since we try to minimize our deathcount in vMoL, we use Harness Magicka for the first boss. I replace Sap Essence with that shield.

  • S'kinrai and Vashai:

    41k (2) [73,5%]

    43k (2) [78,2%]

    ⇒ 48k (2) [82,8%] (Destro-Ult instead of Shooting Star)

    50k (2) [68,4%] (Destro-Ult instead of Shooting Star)

    Usually I don't replace any skills for this boss..

  • Rakkhat:

    40k (2) [76,3%]

    ⇒ 41k (2) [88,9%]

    42k (2) [84,8%]

    For Rakkhat I replace Sap Essence with Harness Magicka. The non-hm can actually be done without a shield. Our current tactic is to only attack Rakkhat, while all Hulks die from AoE-DoTs. This tactic is common practice by most guilds now.

  • Rakkhat (hm): Work in progress. I hope, that we will be able to get to the "beam phase" consistently, soon. Right now our fights look like chicken-massacres. I can consistently achieve 42-45k (best: 48k) until I have to run outside. Usually I am third runner, with Rakkhat at platform 6.

If you are able to speak German, and want to learn the basic mechanics of each boss, then I encourage you to watch Zapzaraps videos: 1, 2,

(Keep in mind that these are pretty old and taken from early tries. But he explains the basic mechanics very well.)

 

Damage-Dummy
  • 34k , Buffs: Elemental Drain.
  • More to come
 vMA [...]

 

FAQ

This section will grow, with more questions asked.

____________

eXceed - Progress Dancing Group is still recruiting!

Check out our Performance  here.

Homepage

____________

Also I am one of the leaders of a not-so-progress-but-cool-people (German) raid group, called "Die Werner".

While eXceed is working on vMoL hardmode, we are currently working on continuity with the 2nd boss and Rakkhat (non hm).

If you are interested, don't hesitate and contact me ingame: @Nichts.

About Nichts:

Nichts hasn't shared anything about themselves.

41 Replies
  1. #21

    BigBadVolk

    Member12 Posts

    Also I'm kinda intrested in your opinion about Master Architect, is it gonna worth it for us Magblades thanks to our insane ulti generation?

    PC EU Masterrace – #NightbladeMasterrace




  2. #22

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts
    BigBadVolk wrote on April 26, 2017

    Also I’m kinda intrested in your opinion about Master Architect, is it gonna worth it for us Magblades thanks to our insane ulti generation?

    There are probably several people out there who can give you the proper formula,

    but I will try to do an estimate based on some of my damage parses.

     

    • On the NB you have approximately 4 utli / 1 sec regeneration -> 70 ultipoints take roughly 18 seconds.
    • The destro-ulit deals ~11% of your damage.
    • Using Soul Harvest instead of this ultimate will result in a damage loss of ~8%¹.
    • The set gives you an increased damage of 15% for 10 seconds for you + 2 nearest targets.

    ¹I tried this a few times on rakkhat, but this is only a guess.

     

    For 1 player we get:

    92 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 92 * 1.083 = 99.6%

    In a group of three DD we estimate:

    (100 + 100 + 92)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = (97.33) * 1.083 = 105.4%

    So if there is one NB using this set we have an increased damage of 5.4%.

    If we have have two NB using this set we might have a 100% uptime, resulting in:

    (100 + 92 + 92)/3 *1.15 = 108.8%

    Which equals an increased damage of 8.8%

     

    Sounds great, but there is a point not mentioned in this rough calculation:

    You have to wear it.

     

    Since it grants Minor Slayer, you can't use it with Moondancer or Aether.

    But there are still some choices you can make.

    • Use swords ⇒ (5/2/ 3+[1,2]) :  Welcome to early 2016. I don't like the idea, but why not. Everything is better than a heavy attack build :D
    • Use only one monster set item ⇒ (5/1/4+[1,1]): Another damage loss.
    • Use only 4 pieces of the other 5 boni set ⇒ (4/2/ 4+[1,1]) : Also a damage loss.

    (5/2/3+[1,2]) =  5*Julianos/Scathing / 2*Monster / 3*Master Architect + [1,2]*Master Architect on weapons

     

    If we assume further damage loss of 5%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 87)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 103.6%  || 2 user:   (100 +87 + 87)/3 *1.15 = 105.0%

    If we assume further damage loss of 10%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 82)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 101.8%  || 2 user:  (100 +82 + 82)/3 *1.15 = 101.2%

    If we assume further damage loss of 15%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 77)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 99.99%  || 2 user:  (100 +82 + 82)/3 *1.15 = 97.4%

    From this rough estimate, we see that the higher the assumed damage loss is, the worse the set gets.

    And if the damage loss get's higher there is a break of slope, where 1 user get's better than 2 users.

    I believe the damage loss of changing the set is somewhere between 5 and 10%, hence I would try 2/3 DDs wearing it.

    To use this set effectively, you have to build small groups of  2/3 + 2/3  + 1/2  DDs wearing this set.

    And the DDs in the 2/3 groups have to use there ultimate shifted.

     

     

    Even though, magicka NB sadly still sucks compared to the other classes ;)

    ----------

     

    If I have time on Sunday, I will post a plot of the function:  Total Damage  depending on uptime of the set and damage loss.

    This function is quite simple and will be correct, since it only uses relative values (uptime and damage loss), and not absolute values.

     

    (And it would also be interesting what happens if  the user of the set generally deals less damage than the other.)

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  3. #23

    BigBadVolk

    Member12 Posts

    Ye thanks for the reply :D

    I also had the same thought, and my only thought if we would wear it 5 piece with 3 willpower and monster set, but thats still a damage and maybe sustain loss.

    When I saw that set I realized that it would be awesome if staves (and 2hs) would give 2 set bonuses so it would be so much easier to wear :D

    PC EU Masterrace – #NightbladeMasterrace




  4. #24

    Nosferatuzod

    Member2010 Posts
    Nichts wrote on April 27, 2017

    BigBadVolk said on April 26, 2017 :

    Also I’m kinda intrested in your opinion about Master Architect, is it gonna worth it for us Magblades thanks to our insane ulti generation?

    There are probably several people out there who can give you the proper formula,

    but I will try to do an estimate based on some of my damage parses.

    • On the NB you have approximately 4 utli / 1 sec regeneration -> 70 ultipoints take roughly 18 seconds.
    • The destro-ulit deals ~11% of your damage.
    • Using Soul Harvest instead of this ultimate will result in a damage loss of ~8%¹.
    • The set gives you an increased damage of 15% for 10 seconds for you + 2 nearest targets.

    ¹I tried this a few times on rakkhat, but this is only a guess.

    For 1 player we get:

    92 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 92* 1.083 = 99.6%

    In a group of three DD we estimate:

    (100 + 100 + 92)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = (97.33) * 1.083 = 105.4%

    So if there is one NB using this set we have an increased damage of 5.4%.

    If we have have two NB using this set we might have a 100% uptime, resulting in:

    (100 + 92 + 92)/3 *1.15 = 108.8%

    Which equals an increased damage of 8.8%

    Sounds great, but there is a point not mentioned in this rough calculation:

    You have to wear it.

    Since it grants Minor Slayer, you can’t use it with Moondancer or Aether.

    But there are still some choices you can make.

    • Use swords ⇒(5/2/ 3+[1,2]) : Welcome to early 2016. I don’t like the idea, but why not. Everything is better than a heavy attack build
    • Use only one monster set item ⇒(5/1/4+[1,1]): Another damage loss.
    • Use only 4 pieces of the other 5 boni set ⇒(4/2/ 4+[1,1]) : Also a damage loss.

    (5/2/3+[1,2]) = 5*Julianos/Scathing /2*Monster /3*Master Architect + [1,2]*Master Architect on weapons

    If we assume further damage loss of 5%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 87)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 103.6% || 2 user: (100 +87 + 87)/3 *1.15 = 105.0%

    If we assume further damage loss of 10%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 82)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 101.8% || 2 user: (100 +82 + 82)/3 *1.15 = 101.2%

    If we assume further damage loss of 15%, we get:

    1 user: (100 + 100 + 77)/3 * (1.15*10 + 1.0*8)/18 = 99.99% ||2 user: (100 +82 + 82)/3 *1.15 = 97.4%

    From this rough estimate, we see that the higher the assumed damage loss is, the worse the set gets.

    And if the damage loss get’s higher there is a break of slope, where 1 user get’s better than 2 users.

    I believe the damage loss of changing the set is somewhere between 5 and 10%, hence Iwould try 2/3 DDs wearing it.

    To use this set effectively, you have to build small groups of 2/3 + 2/3 + 1/2 DDs wearing this set.

    And the DDs in the 2/3 groups have to use there ultimate shifted.

    Even though, magicka NB sadly still sucks compared to the other classes

    ———-

    If I have time on Sunday, I will post a plot of the function: Total Damage depending on uptime of the set and damage loss.

    This function is quite simple and will be correct, since it only uses relative values (uptime and damage loss), and not absolute values.

    (And it would also be interesting what happens if the user of the set generally deals less damage than the other.)

    http://i.imgur.com/YtufRKB.jpg

  5. #25

    Oakmontowls

    Member18 Posts

    Do you think that the new war maiden set is going to be decent for magika night blade? Or do you think it's going to be completely out classed by what is bis or even by julianos.

  6. #26

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts
    Oakmontowls wrote on May 10, 2017

    Do you think that the new war maiden set is going to be decent for magika night blade? Or do you think it’s going to be completely out classed by what is bis or even by julianos.

    My first thought was "hmm interesting" as well. Thank you for that question, let's do some rough estimates.

    War Maiden: 

    • 2/3/4: Increase Crit, Magicka, SD
    • 5: 400SD for Magick Damage Abilities.

    Julianos

    • 2/3/4: Increase Crit, Magicka, Crit
    • 4: Increase SD by 299.

     

    Basic Rules:

    • War Maiden increases Magic Damage - not elemental damage. This includes elemental procc sets, such as Grothdarr.
    • War Maiden does NOT increase the damage of Light/Medium/Heavy-Attacks (of Staffs).  Here it is said, that it will, but that is not true.¹ (Just tested it with 5 pieces War Maiden vs 4 pieces War Maiden + 1 piece Mothers Sorrow on a completely reset (new) char on the pts.)

    ¹ Sorry, I misunderstood his first comment. He says, that HA of magic weapons get buffed, i.e. the restoration staff.

     

    Assumption 1: You can play in Morrowind the same rotation as on live. Last week we went in the new Trial, and I could sustain my current rotation with only one or two HA from time to time. (I switched Molag Kena :(  with Grothdarr, and used Funnel Health instead of Force Pulse. Kudos to our Healer.)  Hence we can just use some of my screenshots from the guide: vMoL Boss 2 / 48k (40k ST = 83%) and vMoL Boss 3 / 41k (37k ST = 89%). Both have good ST damage, but they are slightly different.

     

    Grothdarr?  Well as War Maiden does not buff elemental procc-sets the following estimate will be in favour of War Maiden ;)

     

    Heavy Attack Build?  The more HA you have to make, the worse War Maiden will be. (Julianos buffs HA, War Maiden does not)

     

    Assumption 2:  The difference in the bonuses 2/3/4 are small.

     

    How much increased damage is 400SD? 

    Crystal Fragments¹ without 386 SD²: 2368

    Crystal Fragments² with 386 SD: 2786

    ⇒ 117.6% damage.

    ⇔ 386 SD ~ 17.6

    ⇔ 1SD ~ 0.456

    ⇒ 299SD ~ 13.63 and 400SD ~18.24

    So we get a %-factor of 13.63 for 300SD of Julianos and a %-factor of 18.24 for 400SD of War Maiden.

     

    • In the following estimate  we see the damage of the screenshots as some fixed values. So the result will either be something larger or smaller, depending if War Maiden is better, or worse than pure Julianos.
    • If you use War Maiden, you will get a loss of -13.68 and a gain of 18.24 (on magick damage).

    In other words:

    • Damage that is buffed by War Maiden will get a factor of:  dmg*(1 - 0.1369 + 0.1824)  = dmg*1.0455
    • And damage that is not buffed by War Maiden will get a factor of:  dmg*(1-0.1368) = dmg*0.8632

     

     

    ¹ clicked the wrong class :D

    ² purple gear

     

     

    1) vMoL Boss 2 / 48k (40k ST = 83%)

     

    Damage NOT buffed by War Maiden:

    • 18.3% Blockade of Fire
    • 18.0% Fiery Rage
    • 11.3% LA
    • 1.1 + 0.9% MA + HA
    • Σ = 49.6%

    Damage buffed by War Maiden:

    • 9.8% Twisting Path
    • 9.4% + 1.4% Crippling Grasp¹
    • 7% Impale
    • 5.8% Sap Essence
    • 2.7% Assassins Will
    • 0.4% Soul Harvest
    • Σ = 36.5%

     

    Damage that will or will not be buffed:

    • 9,7%  Force Pulse (not buffed) or Funnel Health (buffed) ²

     

    ¹ 1.4% are from the initial hit

    ² Deals roughly the same damage

     

    Calculation

    Pure Julianos:

    • 49.6% + 36.5% + 9.7% = 95,8%¹

    War Maiden with Force Pulse:

    • 0.8632*49.6% + 1.0455*36.5% + 0.8632*9.7% = 42.815 + 38.161 + 8.373 = 89.35%   (-6,45)

    War Maiden with Funnel Health:

    • 0.8632*49.6% + 1.0455*36.5% + 1.0455*9.7% = 42.815 + 38.161 + 10.141 = 91.12%   (-4,68)

    ¹ The missing percentages are from synergies, glyph etc.

     

     

     

    2) vMoL Boss 3 / 41k (37k ST = 89%)

     

    Damage NOT buffed by War Maiden:

    • 19.1% Blockade of Fire
    • 11.1% Fiery Rage
    • 13.7% LA
    • 0.6% HA
    • Σ = 44.5%

    Damage buffed by War Maiden:

    • 8.5% Twisting Path
    • 10.4% + 1.7% Crippling Grasp
    • 11.1% Impale
    • 8% Assassins Will¹
    • 0.4% Soul Harvest
    • Σ = 40.1%

     

    Damage that will or will not be buffed:

    • 11.0%  Force Pulse (not buffed) or Funnel Health (buffed) ²

     

    ¹ Note that AW is not worth firing on cooldown, i.e. after 4 attacks.

     

    Calculation

    Pure Julianos:

    • 44.5% + 40.1% + 11.0% = 95,6%¹

    War Maiden with Force Pulse:

    • 0.8632*44.5% + 1.0455*40.1% + 0.8632*11.0% = 38.412 + 41.925 + 9.495 = 89.83%   (-5,77)

    War Maiden with Funnel Health:

    • 0.8632*44.5% + 1.0455*40.1% + 1.0455*11.0% = 38.412 + 41.925 +11.501 = 91.84%   (-3,76)

    ¹ The missing percentages are from synergies, glyph etc.

     

     

     

     

    TL:DR

    No it is not better than Julianos, judged by this estimation.

     

    If there are any mistakes, please tell me :)

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  7. #27

    Oakmontowls

    Member18 Posts

    Oh well I guess its just another worthless set. I guess scathing will be the new (old?) bis for night blades assuming they don't fix twisting path that is.

  8. #28

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts
    Oakmontowls wrote on May 10, 2017

    Oh well I guess its just another worthless set. I guess scathing will be the new (old?) bis for night blades assuming they don’t fix twisting path that is.

     

    Might or might not be. That depends if you can still get the uptime.

    I doubt that, if using a HA-Build.

    On a normal build it depends how long you can keep your rotation.

    (Scathing > Julianos if uptime >~60%)

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  9. #29

    Oakmontowls

    Member18 Posts
    Nichts wrote on May 10, 2017

    Oakmontowls said on May 10, 2017 :

    Oh well I guess its just another worthless set. I guess scathing will be the new (old?) bis for night blades assuming they don’t fix twisting path that is.

    Might or might not be. That depends if you can still get the uptime.

    I doubt that, if using a HA-Build.

    On a normal build it depends how long you can keep your rotation.

    (Scathing > Julianos if uptime >~60%)

    So i just did the math based on the post here by our math lord and savior Asayre and with using twisting path alone at 68% crit (my current crit chance with Grothdar julianos and willpower) we will have an uptime of 54% of scathing mage. So we would need 1.3 attacks per second in order to have an uptime of around 60% which seems very feasible assuming we aren't using a lightning staff heavy attack build.

  10. #30

    DonkeyJote

    Member36 Posts

    I've seen some really high uptimes from testers.  Alcast posted a shot of 76% on his Magblade.

  11. #31

    C4Vice

    Member96 Posts

    I used scathing for a while now and it is really easy to get 70%+ uptime

  12. #32

    Oakmontowls

    Member18 Posts

    I'm not looking forward to farming scathing mage.... so far I only have the legs in divines.

  13. #33

    Nosferatuzod

    Member2010 Posts
    Oakmontowls wrote on May 17, 2017

    Nichts said on May 10, 2017 :

    Might or might not be. That depends if you can still get the uptime.

    I doubt that, if using a HA-Build.

    On a normal build it depends how long you can keep your rotation.

    (Scathing > Julianos if uptime >~60%)

    So i just did the math based on the post hereby our math lord and saviorAsayre and with using twisting path alone at 68% crit (my current crit chance with Grothdar julianos and willpower) we will have an uptime of 54% of scathing mage. So we would need 1.3 attacks per second in order to have an uptime of around 60% which seems very feasible assuming we aren’t using a lightning staff heavy attack build.

    You will never have below 65% uptime on a magblade if your gtoup positions things well. O average 75% with heavy AoE fights such as AA or Rakkat HM 80%+

  14. #34

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts

    Hello everyone,

     

    in the last weeks I didn't have that much time, due to my job and a wedding last weekend. (As best man I had to organize a lot.)

     

    Since we cleared vMoL hm some weeks ago, there is not much to do. I don't know how the top players still stay with ESO.

    The only reason I kept playing are the players in the game.

    I don't like the mechanics in the new trial - because there are no mechanics except mass AoE damage and ressource drain.

    And there are several things that still get not fixed / changed, e.g. the RNG system.

    Hence, I am not really in the mood to spend a lot of time (and some money as well) doing something that I don't like to do.

    Here are some build ideas, that have not been tested so far.

    For now I will not change post #1 due to lack of tests.

    Keep in mind that these are just ideas. I have not tested how good these ideas really are.

    ---

    Most stuff from posting #1 is still true with this pre-morrowind live version.

    For example, you still have to place your skills on the first and second bar, such that all passives of the NB and destro staff are up.

    I personally don't like heavy attack builds, and I still don't like hard rotation like: start over.

    Therefore my rotation will / would be: Play the same way as pre-morrowind, but occasionally place a HA, if you have the time ( i.e. instead of a Force Pulse).

     

    GEAR:

    First of all: Kena is now useless :(

    The only monster set that is fun to play and not proc-based got fixed, so that it is not worth playing any more.

    So my current build choice is:

    • Armor + jewellry: 5* Scathing Mage / 4* Moondancer / 1* Kena (Max Magicka or max SD enchantment)
    • Bar 1: Maelstrom Inferno Staff - precise
    • Bar 2 : Moondancer Lightning Staff - sharpened

    This setup is what I can play because of RNG. Obviously both staffs in the same trait would be better.

    Playing with Moondancer: If manareg, do your rotation. If spelldamage, you might need HAs.

     

    Probably a better setup is the following:

    • Armor + Jewellry: 4* Scathing Mage / 4* Moondancer / 2* Grothdarr or Ilambris
    • Bar 1: Scathing Mage Inferno
    • Bar 2: Moondancer Lightning

    Here the Idea is, that both sets give you buffs, that keep active while bar swapping. Hence Scathing Mage that can be active on both bars, but only activated on one bar, might be better than Julianos which is active on one bar, but not on the other.

    And the second piece of Grorthdarr / Ilambris should/could be better than the Maelstrom Staff on one bar.

     

     

    The bars would look like:

    • Bar 1:  crippling grasp¹, funnel health, merciless resolve³, WoE², Inner Light,  Soul Harvest³
    • Bar 2: Harness Magicka, Impale³, Twisting Path, Siphoning Attacks¹, Inner Light, Thunderous Rage²

    ¹ Siphoning Passive

    ² Destro Passive

    ³ Assassination Passive

     

     

    Master Architect: As roughly estimated in a comment above, this set is worth playing. But it comes with the cost of not being able to use moondancer.

    Because of RNG I have not spend many thoughts about how to use it.

     

    Siphoning Attacks: I still feel like that is a wasted slot, since HAs regenerate a lot of magicka and deal damage.

     

    -----

     

    I hope that these ideas will bring up some thoughts as well :)

    And maybe I will enjoy playing again.

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  15. #35

    BigBadVolk

    Member12 Posts
    Nichts wrote on May 23, 2017

    Hello everyone,

    in the last weeks I didn’t have that much time, due to my job and a wedding last weekend. (As best man I had to organize a lot.)

    Since we cleared vMoL hm some weeks ago, there is not much to do. I don’t know how the top players still stay with ESO.

    The only reason I kept playing are the players in the game.

    I don’t like the mechanics in the new trial – because there are no mechanics except mass AoE damage and ressource drain.

    And there are several things that still get not fixed / changed, e.g. the RNG system.

    Hence, I am not really in the mood to spend a lot of time (and some money as well) doing something that I don’t like to do.

    Here are some build ideas, that have not been tested so far.

    For now I will not change post #1 due to lack of tests.

    Keep in mind that these are just ideas. I have not tested how good these ideas really are.

    Most stuff from posting #1 is still true with this pre-morrowind live version.

    For example, you still have to place your skills on the first and second bar, such that all passives of the NB and destro staff are up.

    I personally don’t like heavy attack builds, and I still don’t like hard rotation like: start over.

    Therefore my rotation will / would be: Play the same way as pre-morrowind, but occasionally place a HA, if you have the time ( i.e. instead of a Force Pulse).

    GEAR:

    First of all: Kena is now useless

    The only monster set that is fun to play and not proc-based got fixed, so that it is not worth playing any more.

    So my current build choice is:

    • Armor + jewellry: 5* Scathing Mage / 4* Moondancer / 1* Kena (Max Magicka or max SD enchantment)
    • Bar 1: Maelstrom Inferno Staff – precise
    • Bar 2 : Moondancer Lightning Staff – sharpened

    This setup is what I can play because of RNG. Obviously both staffs in the same trait would be better.

    Playing with Moondancer: If manareg, do your rotation. If spelldamage, you might need HAs.

    Probably a better setup is the following:

    • Armor + Jewellry: 4* Scathing Mage / 4* Moondancer / 2* Grothdarr or Ilambris
    • Bar 1: Scathing Mage Inferno
    • Bar 2: Moondancer Lightning

    Here the Idea is, that both sets give you buffs, that keep active while bar swapping. Hence Scathing Mage that can be active on both bars, but only activated on one bar, might be better than Julianos which is active on one bar, but not on the other.

    And the second piece of Grorthdarr / Ilambris should/could be better than the Maelstrom Staff on one bar.

    The bars would look like:

    • Bar 1: crippling grasp¹, funnel health, merciless resolve³, WoE², Inner Light, Soul Harvest³
    • Bar 2: Harness Magicka, Impale³, Twisting Path, Siphoning Attacks¹, Inner Light, Thunderous Rage²

    ¹ Siphoning Passive

    ² Destro Passive

    ³ Assassination Passive

    Master Architect: As roughly estimated in a comment above, this set is worth playing. But it comes with the cost of not being able to use moondancer.

    Because of RNG I have not spend many thoughts about how to use it.

    Siphoning Attacks: I still feel like that is a wasted slot, since HAs regenerate a lot of magicka and deal damage.

    —–

    I hope that these ideas will bring up some thoughts as well

    And maybe I will enjoy playing again.

    Its sad to hear, but well sometimes everyone need to take a break.

     

    Also gonna test some of these when I will have time too :D

     

    PC EU Masterrace – #NightbladeMasterrace




  16. #36

    C4Vice

    Member96 Posts

    I seem to have better dps and sustain with willpower (dont know why). Also 1 rotation i use my spammable and my 2nd rotation i do 3 heavy attacks. Sustain seems fine like this. I dont even use a mag recovery glyph.

    Will do some more testing next couple of weeks

  17. #37

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts

    Shortly after I posted this setup, I tested it on the small dummy.

    I messed up the rotation, since the bars are completely different, and I used synergy twice on the wrong bar. Still I got ~30k, therefore this setup might be a good idea.

    With good rotation and better placement of CPs 34k should be doable. Also it needs proper CP distribution.

     

    About resource management:

    I had elemental drain and (heal-) bubbles and was around 60% magicka at the end.

     

     

     

    C4Vice wrote on May 23, 2017

    I seem to have better dps and sustain with willpower (dont know why). Also 1 rotation i use my spammable and my 2nd rotation i do 3 heavy attacks. Sustain seems fine like this. I dont even use a mag recovery glyph.

    Will do some more testing next couple of weeks

    The problem I have with WP is, that it is a 3 item set.

    So you are stuck with  5/3/2/1, e.g.  5*Julianos + 3*WP + 2*Grothdarr + (1+1)*Maelstrom,  or  5/3/3, e.g. 5*Julianos + 3*WP + 3*Moondancer.

    The first build needs hard to get Maelstrom Staffs, and both don't have sustain. That is why I chose 5*MD on one bar.

    You could tweak both setups using either glyphs on the weapons or jewellery, or using poison on the weapons.

     

    I think that both are not optimal.

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  18. #38

    Arun

    Member4 Posts

    Hello!

    Thanks for the guide, its really useful for me. I tested all classes with diffrent types of builds, magica or stamina. But ended up on Magblade, its my first character then I actually enjoyed to a point, where I done main quest, and get to champion system( Im currently c116 ), characters before nightblade. didn't`t even survive past 38 lvl. So I feel, like this class is best. So much flexibility! :)

     

    I just have a little problem. I cant follow your guide in terms of " gear ", since I dont have any DLC. So it`s kinda problematic for me to choose, a setup, that will work in VET dungeons. Second problem that I give priority to visual side, that forces me to use only crafting set. ( I love light mercenary motif )

    Can you please suggest what setup would work for me best?

    I was thinking about 5 Julianos and 4 Aether, as monster set actually no idea what to use, like what type of staffs( Fire or lightning ). I would appriciete some thoughts, insights, advices.

    I have no idea what those numbers, uptimes and etc mean. I`m total newbie, actually started to play this game like 2 weeks ago.

  19. #39

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts
    Arun wrote on July 5, 2017

    Hello!

    Thanks for the guide, its really useful for me. I tested all classes with diffrent types of builds, magica or stamina. But ended up on Magblade, its my first character then I actually enjoyed to a point, where I done main quest, and get to champion system( Im currently c116 ), characters before nightblade. didn’t`t even survive past 38 lvl. So I feel, like this class is best. So much flexibility!

    I just have a little problem. I can<code>t follow your guide in terms of " gear ", since I don</code>t have any DLC. So it`s kinda problematic for me to choose, a setup, that will work in VET dungeons. Second problem that I give priority to visual side, that forces me to use only crafting set. ( I love light mercenary motif )

    Can you please suggest what setup would work for me best?

    I was thinking about 5 Julianos and 4 Aether, as monster set actually no idea what to use, like what type of staffs( Fire or lightning ). I would appriciete some thoughts, insights, advices.

    I have no idea what those numbers, uptimes and etc mean. I`m total newbie, actually started to play this game like 2 weeks ago.

     

    Sorry for the late answer. I just found a notification in my mailbox.

     

    I stopped playing ESO with Morrowind, because of mainly two reasons:

    1) The Morrowind content is boring. ESO is still a MMO, but they keep bringing so much Solo content. The DLCs brought so far only two trials and four dungeons. Everything else was solocontent (thiefsguild, wrothgar, dark brotherhood and especially morrowind).

    What makes the Morrowind content boring are the simple mechanics, which is basically only a lot of AoE damage and ressource-drain.  IMO skinrai/vashai and rakkhat have the most interesting mechanics ingame. HoF is just another Fungal Grotto compared to MoL.  And even the mechanics in MoL are not great if you compare them to other games.

     

    2) There are so many things that they haven't fixed yet. The most annoying thing about those is the RNG Loot. It isn't even possible to try out some possible gear combinations, because they won't drop for you at all ...

     

    You should check out mashinates up2date guide here.

    (The topic states v2.0 but that actually should be v3.0)

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

  20. #40

    Nichts

    Member95 Posts

    There is currently a bug with the Magicka Flood Passive: 

    -> https://forums.elderscrollsonline.com/en-gb/discussion/443555/bug-magicka-flood-nightblade-siphoning-passive-grants-buff-on-wrong-bar/p1?new=1  

    Just found this while doing some calculations.

    ID: @Nichts EU West – EP

    Sanyarin’Donnerblatt (Magicka NB PVE), Sanyarin’Donneraether (Magicka NB PVP), Sanyarina’Donnerwasser (Heal-Tank Templar PVP, Healer PVE), Sanyarin’Donnerstahl (NB Heal-Tank PVE)

     

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