Tamriel Foundry

Introduction to PvE damage calculation (Horns of the Reach)

Acknowledgement

A special thank you to all addon developers that have both significantly improved the quality of my gaming life as well as allowing me the opportunity to reverse engineer game mechanics. In particular, Combat Log Statistics by @Zeakfury and Combat Metrics by @Solinur have been instrumental for the majority of my testing. I would also like to extend my deepest gratitude to the community for the kind words, encouragement and valuable discussions.

Contents

  • Introduction
  • Damage Equations
    • Resource Pool
    • Spell Damage
    • Recovery
    • Spell Cost
    • Spell Critical
    • Critical Modifier
    • Damage Calculation
      • Base Ability Tooltip
      • Base Damage
      • Average Damage
      • Ability Metric
  • Analytical Results
    • Champion Point System
      • Thief
      • Mage
    • Mundus: Apprentice, Mage, Thief and Shadow
    • Armour Traits: Divines and Infused
    • Weapon Traits:Nirnhoned, Precise and Sharpened
  • Numerical Results
    • Introduction
    • Details of Simulation Algorithm
    • Simulation Interface
    • Simulation Accuracy
    • Simulation Results for Magicka Sorcerer

 

Introduction

This post is divided into three main sections: Damage Equations, Analytical Results and Numerical Results.

Damage Equations covers the majority of equations needed to accurate calculate damage. It is my impression that the majority of these are readily recognisable by the community so my exposition of it will be brief. In addition, the Unofficial Elder Scroll pages boast a comprehensive build editor that not only calculates statistics for virtually all gear combinations it also clearly and tidily demonstrates the underlying equations used.

Optimisation decisions based of the Damage Equations are covered in Analytical Results. These include champion point optimisation, mundus optimisation, armour trait optimisation and weapon trait optimisation.

While the Analytical Results provide some insight into damage optimisation, some optimisation questions are rather arduous to answer, in particular the impact of proc sets on damage. One approach is with a geometric distribution but this only models the average behaviour and leaves much to be desired. Numerical Results summarises some of my combat simulation findings.

While I will rely on magicka sorcerers for the bulk of my examples, most of the concepts apply equally to other classes.

About Asayre:

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470 Replies
  1. #21

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    @FrancisCrawford how about just light attacking a monster as fast as you can and see your Berserker uptime?

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  2. #22

    Deuteriumhydroxid

    Member6 Posts

    One Question: what are "Relevant Champion Points" (Regarding Stat pool)

    Let's say someone has 784 CP. Are relevant Champion points then 600 Cp or 200 Cp?

  3. #23

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    @Deuteriumhydroxid red champion points will increase your health CPI, blue champion points will increase your magicka CPI and green champion points will increase your stamina CPI. If you have 784 CP then it will be 200 for each.

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  4. #24

    LiquidPony

    Member27 Posts

    @Asayre

    Lots of misinformation on a topic related to Maelstrom staves; hoping you can clarify.

    Given a 3 x IA/Moondancer, 2 x Illambris, 5 x BSW setup with a Sharpened lightning front bar (either IA/Moondancer or random), is it preferable to run a non-Sharpened (say, Precise or Nirnhoned) Maelstrom inferno staff on the back bar, or a random Sharpened inferno staff?

    My understanding of penetration calculation is that bar-swapping off of Blockade means that we're only getting the benefit of Sharpened on the back bar on Liquid Lightning (and perhaps Mage's Wrath).

    I'm sure this has been asked before, but it's hard to find a definitive answer.

  5. #25

    Latin

    Moderator1307 Posts

    @LiquidPony

    Sharpened on the backbar is still preferable - you can refer to the section on Weapon Traits - the point where precise outperforms sharpened is when the residual resistance of the target is 1700 or lower.

    I might be missing something, can you elaborate on your rationale for having a non-sharpened staff on the backbar with Liquid Lightning and Mage's Wrath? Considering that penetration stat snapshots off the active bar when the first damage tick occurs, even if the only skill you have on the backbar is Liquid Lightning, it still contributes 12-17% of my single target damage on sorc; to not have sharpened for that seems odd.

    e pluribus unum

  6. #26

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    @LiquidPony

    For most skills, penetration is dynamically calculated which is to say that it depends on your current stats and current bar. So you're right to say that having a Sharpened ony our back bar will only affect Blockade, Liquid Lightning and Mage's Wrath when you're on your back bar. Penetration snap shots only off certain abilities but it is unlikely you will use them. Of the commonly used magicka based abilities, only Force Clench and Crippling Grasp are static.

    Anyway to answer your question, using a precise maelstrom staff on your back bar as opposed to a sharpened (assuming 2 Ilambris, 5 Julianos, 3 Moondancer) is about a 2% DPS loss (mean = 41227, SD = 1125) with precise as compared to sharpened ( mean = 42167, SD = 1341 ). If you use non-set sharpened staff it decreases by about 4% (mean = 40651). I think the calculated difference is appropriate as the majority of the damage difference should be from the added LA damage of having a Maelstrom staff. With perfect weaving you would expect your LAs to be boosted by 1341 * Other (the Maelstrom effect is not increased by CP.) The difference between the means I calculated is 1516 so it’s roughly in that ballpark. That said, not many people will be weaving all the time so while theoretically precise maelstrom on the backbar is better than non-set sharpened, if you are only hitting your Maelstrom buffed weaves like half the time they are comparable.

    Edit: there might a be of overestimation of DPS for using a precise Maelstrom on the back bar because I allow practically zero second bar swaps so you are only typically on your back bar for exactly 2 seconds to refresh Blockade and Liquid Lightning, moreover since bar swaps occur before damage like only 2 DoT tick occurs on the back bar.

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  7. #27

    LiquidPony

    Member27 Posts

    @Latin

    The question was whether a non-set Sharpened inferno  staff would be preferable to a non-Sharpened Maelstrom inferno staff on the back bar.

    For those of us that don't have IA/Moondancer/Maelstrom staves in Sharpened. I run 3 x IA, 2 x Illambris, 5 x BSW and a random Sharpened lightning on the front bar. On the back, I can choose between a Precise or Nirnhoned Maelstrom inferno or use another random Sharpened inferno.

    That is, does the extra damage from Sharpened on Liquid Lightning (and Mage's Wrath where applicable) outperform the extra damage from the Maelstrom enchantment on light attacks?

  8. #28

    LiquidPony

    Member27 Posts

    @Asayre

    Thank you. I was unable to definitively tell the difference in Bloodspawn tests. I know my LA rate is pretty poor, so that seems to line up with what you've calculated.

    Appreciate the response and all the work you've done.

  9. #29

    RaiseTheGlass1

    Member57 Posts

    Do you recommend putting 75 points into Thaumaturge for a Sorcerer during the Homestead patch, if healers are keeping up 100% uptime on Blockades of Shock for off-balance? If so, how should I go about configuring my CP? I couldn't figure out how to use your worksheet to answer that question.

  10. #30

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    You'll want to use the website and go to the Advanced tab and set the minimum CP limit of Thaumathurge to 75. Anyway, to answer your question it depends on how far away you are from putting 75 CP into Thaumathurge. If I assume 40% of my damage is from DoT and I'm just getting Major Breach, then my CP optimiser says to put 100 in Elemental Expert, 46 in Spell Erosion, 42 in Elfborn and 12 in Thaumathurge. The optimisation function output is 1.793. If you open the developer console on my CP optimisation webpage you can see the optimisation function output. If I force it to put 75 points into Thaumathurge it then suggest 100 in Elemental Expert, 5 in Spell Erosion, 22 in Elfborn with an optimisation function output of 1.745. So you'll be losing about 3% damage. This suggest that you need your target to be off-balance for at least a third of the time, possibly higher since Exploiter is presumably additive with other forms of damage done. Combat Metrics can be used to determine the off-balance time.

    Edit: Link

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  11. #31

    RaiseTheGlass1

    Member57 Posts

    Thanks, that's super helpful. I do think 100 + 22 + 5 + 75 is 202 tho :) My understanding is that off-balance does have a very high uptime, but I'm a console player and thus would need to defer to my betters!

  12. #32

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    Haha I can't copy and paste properly. It should have been 98 in Elemental Expert, 5 in Spell Erosion, 22 in Elfborn. It's not too hard to get 30% off balance with just Blockade of Storms so if you have a few sorcs in there for good measure you should be good to go.

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  13. #33

    FrancisCrawford

    Contributor3062 Posts

    Continuing the discussion of Beserker/Weapon Power enchantment from the other thread, I just ran some experiments on a target dummy.

    CombatMetrics had Beserker uptime in the 40-60% range, and S'renndar frequently showed a Beserker buff:

    • When I spammed light attacks from a bow with the Weapon Damage enchantment.
    • When I spammed light attacks in DW, with the mainhand having a Weapon Damage enchantment.

    CombatMetrics had no Beserker uptime, and S'renndar never showed a Beserker buff when, with the same weapons as before:

    • I spammed Poison Arrow, except for renewing Siphoning Attacks on cooldown.
    • I spammed Bloodthirst, except for renewing Siphoning Attacks on cooldown.

     

    Also:

    • Spamming lightning staff light attacks got Beserker noted by both add-ons, just as in the stamina examples above.
    • Do did spamming heavy attacks.
    • Spamming Crushing Shock got zero acknowledgement of Beserker, just as in the stamina examples above.

    General tips

    A sorcerer leveling guide

  14. #34

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    So are you not light attacking often which is that cause of your low Berserker uptime?

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  15. #35

    FrancisCrawford

    Contributor3062 Posts
    Asayre wrote on February 17, 2017

    So are you not light attacking often which is that cause of your low Berserker uptime?

    That's the theory. Generally, my logs with low light attack damage and low Berserker uptime are the same. However, some people think that's nonsense, because using skills also procs Berserker. So I've been investigating that claim. So far, all my evidence comes down on the side of skills NOT proccing Berserker.

    The one thing I haven't done yet is take two weapons that are identical except for one having a Weapon/Spell damage enchantment, spamming a skill at the test dummy, and seeing whether the damage per hit appears to be different. My plan for trying it is to go naked, to be sure that other buffs (food, CP, passives) are identical, and to be careful around the fact that crit rates can vary from test to test. Is there anything else I should watch out for when testing?

    General tips

    A sorcerer leveling guide

  16. #36

    Solinur

    Member352 Posts

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I'm reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

  17. #37

    Nosferatuzod

    Member2010 Posts
    decay wrote on February 19, 2017

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I’m reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

    Is there a way to track offbalance uptime? I see the offbalance # in debuffs out but it gives a very small number such as 4 or 5 or 8. Im assuming that this indicates when the target becomes offbalance, but it would be great if there was a % indicator tracking its uptime, since it can be taken off by heavy/medium weaves as well as Power Lashes....

  18. #38

    Asayre

    Member633 Posts

    @FrancisCrawford, I think your testing is right. Enchantment proc of light attacks

    @Solinur, Thanks! It's a really great addon and I can't ask for much more. Most of the things I calculate are based on things I see in Combat Metrics. I can't really think of any additional features that I need right now.

    Introduction to PvE Damage Calculation

  19. #39

    Solinur

    Member352 Posts
    Nosferatuzod wrote on February 19, 2017

    decay said on February 19, 2017 :

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I’m reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

    Is there a way to track offbalance uptime? I see the offbalance # in debuffs out but it gives a very small number such as 4 or 5 or 8. Im assuming that this indicates when the target becomes offbalance, but it would be great if there was a % indicator tracking its uptime, since it can be taken off by heavy/medium weaves as well as Power Lashes….

    True I want this too, I have to investigate :).

     

  20. #40

    Norn

    Member29 Posts

    First of all I want to thank your for everything you've done so far. Guys like you make this community a lot better place.

    I also bring some questions with me :)

    For a Magplar running the current BiS gear, which is Groth/BSW/Moondancer, would it be better to use 2 Sharpened Sword or one Sharp and one Infused(Weapon Enchant), at the moment due to rotation highest uptime I can get on Weapon Enchant is around 40%(out of theoretical 50%) and while I know that theoretical uptime on an Infused Weapon enchant is around 85%, due to rotation it will most likely be around 65-70%, do you think in a situation where we have 12844 base penetration that can go up to 17800 occasionally(with the addition of Infused Crusher and Alkosh), which one would be better? Double Sharpened or Sharp/Infused?

     

    I realize that the easiest answer is to test it, but it's kinda hard to replicate the environment while also missing crucial pieces.

    Stamina SorcererRobust Target Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,865 (5,745,107 in 2:35.8s)

    Magicka TemplarTarget Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,370 (3,015,176 in 1:22.9s)

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