Tamriel Foundry

HatchetHaro's "Rising Storm" Stamina Sorcerer PvE DPS (DrB)

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A Stamina Sorcerer PvE DPS guide by HatchetHaro

Yes I stole that name off of Warframe.

Stamina sorcerers are actually quite powerful in raid settings, and is a great class for stamina damage-dealing. Here is my take on an effective stamina sorcerer build and rotation.

Please keep in mind that these are all simply what I personally use and are my own recommendations on my preferred stamsorc build. There are many alternatives to the build that other people may prefer, and I will talk about them as well. 

 

Dragon Bones

Spoiler:

Right now for the Dragon Bones DLC (actually same for Clockwork City, but it never gained traction until the end of it), Mechanical Acuity seems to be quite potent, especially on weapons.

In fully optimized raids, Automaton armor and jewellery + Mechanical Acuity armor and weapons seems to be BiS. However, that build will also be something hard to sustain unless you're a Redguard, so in that case, I would suggest VO + Automaton.

I mean, I don't like it. I hate proc-reliant damage. :(

 

Stats

Spoiler:

None

 

Race

I'm personally not a fan of racial passives; most people are pretty much forced to pick an "optimal race" in order to be able to min-max. Still, here are some raw stats on races that have something to do with stamsorcs, ranked from best to worst (personal opinion).

Redguard – +10% stamina, +9% stamina recovery, 792 stamina restored on melee attacks every 5 seconds (effective at most 304.8 stamina recovery; expect ~270)

Khajiit – +8% weapon crit chance, +10% stamina recovery

Orc – +6% stamina, +4% melee weapon attack damage

Bosmer – +6% stamina, +21% stamina recovery

Imperial – +10% stamina

Argonian – 4620 stamina restored on potion use (effective at most 205.3 stamina recovery)

Dunmer – +6% stamina

Nord – +6% stamina

Altmer – jack shit

Breton – jack shit

 

General rule of thumb is that a higher stamina pool is going to grant you more damage with your abilities. Stamina recovery is less sought-after in this stamina sorcerer build since each rotation contains 4 heavy attacks already.

Here, this may mean that you might want to prioritize a higher stamina pool. That +10% stamina buff on Redguards and Imperials can net you about 8% more damage compared to, say, Argonians. That ~3k stamina difference can mean a damage difference of 1k+ per DoT, and in a full rotation it can add up.

The same can be said about Khajiiti crits, and that added critical chance is rather appealing to many players.

However, while the sustain is good, this build lacks in heavy attack flexibility, and regaining stamina after a death-and-revive may prove challenging without orbs, shards, or potions. This problem is especially compounded in CC-heavy trials such as the Halls of Fabrication.

 

And yes, this means I'm handicapping myself somewhat by playing an Argonian; f**k yeah lizards.

 

Vampire it up. It looks ugly, but it'll give you 10% more stamina recovery. Just pop on a skin or wear some full armor.

Or just use a Dwemeri Tonal Attenuator / Executioner's Hood and Nordic Bather's Towel to hide your ugly mug yet embrace your beautiful skin.

 

Health bonuses

Spoiler:

A minor thing to keep in mind is your racial health bonuses. Remember: a dead DD deals 0 dps, so a 17k+ health pool is desirable in veteran trials, perhaps even more. In this case, you may find yourself assigning several points into health or using health enchantments, which will take out from your stamina pool. Naturally, the more health you have, the less of a hit your stamina pool will take. Here are the races with racial passives with something to do with survivability, ranked from best to worst (also personal opinion). Keep in mind that I've decided to ignore the resistance bonuses; I find that they matter little, and it's just better to have a good health pool.

Imperial - +12% max health, 10% chance to restore 6% of max health on melee attacks

Nord - +9% max health, +6% damage reduction

Argonian - +9% max health, +5% healing done, +5% healing received

Orc - +6% max health

 

Attributes

All into stamina. You can always get extra health from enchants.

 

Mundus

The Warrior in dungeons and trials

The Lover in non-group scenarios

 

Food

Health + Stamina

You shouldn't really need the Dubious Camoran Throne for the stamina recovery. While the sustain on stamsorcs is quite bad, you shouldn't have much trouble with the stamina sustain with the number of heavy attacks we have. Even in vHoF, I wouldn't suggest it. Just pop an orb or two once in a while.

Also, using the Dubious Camoran Throne decreases your health and stamina pool, and if you use health enchants to get your survivability back up, your stamina pool will take more hits. Remember: ability damage scales off your stamina pool as well.

One particular exception to this, however, is that you're going to want more stamina recovery on the final boss of vHRC; that fight is even more draining than the entirety of vHoF, so what I like to do there is switch to the Dubious Camoran Throne and put on a piece of armor that has a full health glyph on while running through the corridor to the final boss room.

Keep in mind that this does not cover vMA; that will be a different build all together.

Champion Points

Keep in mind the CP jump points. Long story short, CP values are rounded down to the nearest whole number. Basically, listed 15.6% value would actually just be 15% value, so you may not want to waste those points on the useless 0.6%.

RED TREE

Ironclad - 40

Spell Shield - 28

Medium Armor Focus - 20

Thick Skinned - 40

Hardy - 56

Elemental Defender - 56

Spoiler:

This is just a quick baseline CP setup for everyday content. For serious vet trial runs, you may want to adjust your CP to accommodate for the trial's main damage types; consult your pals/raid-leader for that info.

BLUE TREE

Master at Arms - 28

Thaumaturge - 56

Precise Strikes - 61

Piercing - 39

Mighty - 56

Spoiler:

In trials, based on your group composition and penetration, you may want to take points out of piercing and assign them to Thaumaturge, Precise Strikes, Master at Arms, and Mighty, in that order. Here's just my preferred setup.

Master at Arms - 37

Thaumaturge - 66

Precise Strikes - 66

Piercing - 15

Mighty - 56

GREEN TREE

Warlord - 20

Mooncalf - 100

Tenacity - 100

Shadow Ward - 20

Spoiler:

In CC-heavy trials/fights such as vHoF, vAA final boss HM, and vHRC final boss:

Warlord - 37

Mooncalf - 75

Tenacity - 75

Tumbling - 9

Shadow Ward - 44

300CP Setup:

Spoiler:

RED TREE

Ironclad - 20

Spell Shield - 6

Thick Skinned - 20

Hardy - 27

Elemental Defender - 27

BLUE TREE

Thaumaturge - 28

Precise Strikes - 28

Piercing - 17

Mighty - 27

GREEN TREE

Warlord - 2

Mooncalf - 37

Tenacity - 43

Shadow Ward - 18

 

Gear

Solo / Dungeons

Spoiler:

Armor / Jewellery

2pc Kra'gh's / Velidreth / Stormfist

5pc TFS (Twice-Fanged Serpent)

3pc Automaton / Mechanical Acuity

All armor - medium Divines - Stamina enchantment

All jewellery - Robust - Weapon Damage enchantment

Weapons

Automaton / MA Axe/Dagger - Nirnhoned/Infused - Poison/Prismatic enchantment

Automaton / MA Dagger/Sword - Infused/Precise - Weapon Damage enchantment

vMA Bow - Nirnhoned - Ravage Heath + Gradual Ravage Health poison

Trials (Full Damage)

Spoiler:

Armor / Jewellery

2pc Kra'gh's / Velidreth / Stormfist

5pc Automaton

3pc Mechanical Acuity / VO (Vicious Serpent)

All armor - medium Divines - Stamina enchantment

All jewellery - Robust - Weapon Damage enchantment

Weapons

MA / VO Axe/Dagger - Nirnhoned/Infused - Poison/Prismatic enchantment

MA / VO Dagger/Sword - Infused/Precise - Weapon Damage enchantment

vMA Bow - Nirnhoned - Ravage Heath + Gradual Ravage Health poison

Trials (Support)

Spoiler:

Armor / Jewellery

2pc Kra'gh's / Velidreth / Stormfist

5pc VO (Vicious Serpent)

3pc Sunderflame / Night Mother's Gaze / Morag Tong

All armor - medium Divines - Stamina enchantment

All jewellery - Robust - Weapon Damage enchantment

Weapons

Sunder / NMG / Morag Axe/Dagger - Nirnhoned/Infused - Poison/Prismatic enchantment

Sunder / NMG / Morag Dagger - Infused/Precise - Weapon Damage enchantment

vMA Bow - Nirnhoned - Ravage Heath + Gradual Ravage Health poison

 

Full Gear List

Monster Set - Kra'gh's; Velidreth; Stormfist; Spawn of Mephala

Crafted sets (no jewellery) - Hunding's Rage; Night Mother's Gaze; Mechanical Acuity

Looted sets (has jewellery) - TFS; VO; Sunderflame; Automaton; Spriggans

Bow - Maelstrom / any of the above 5pc sets

 

The reason I'm using Kra'gh's is that the damage from its proc is the best among the monster sets. Overpenetration isn't too much of a big deal especially with that proc. A downside is that if you're away from your target, it's not going to be of much use, so use in fights where you're constantly at melee range with the boss.

Velidreth is a very viable monster set too, and is the best monster set to use in trials against bosses with chunky hitboxes, such as Varlariel and the Possessed Manticora, due to multiple spores being able to hit the enemy more than once. Keep in mind that many bosses are not chunky enough for Velidreth to do that though, such as the Mage and the Serpent. My recommendation is to swap between the two sets depending on the bosses, but sticking with just one is completely fine.

Spawn of Mephala is a really good monster set to run as well, almost on par with Velidreth and Kra'gh's. It's great in stationary fights as well as fights with many adds, and it can also be activated from range with a bow heavy attack, thus very suitable for vAA.

Stormfist's proc is not as good, but its stamina recovery 1pc still makes a really noticable difference for sustain, and is pretty much necessary for the Halls of Fabrication. The proc itself can also proc your Implosion passive for more damage.

Automaton is really good, better than Hunding's Rage, but it is much more annoying to acquire. So far one of the best sets to use, in my opinion.

Mechanical Acuity seems to be the new meta for both stamina and magicka for the Dragon Bones patch (actually also for Clockwork City though it never gained traction until much later). They really shine when used as weapons, due to their procs matching up with most of the damage on your frontbar and also letting you keep the other 5pc bonus on your other set full-time.

As a result, since the effects of Mechanical Acuity scales more the less crit you have, you may want to go with an axe/dagger setup when you're using it.

As for Mechanical Acuity versus Automaton when paired with TFS, they're pretty much on-par with each other. I personally prefer Mechanical Acuity since it is more damage and also synergizes really well with Ballista, but if you're low CP and can not put 61 points into Precise Strikes, Automaton may be better overall for you.

A note on the traits on the dual wield weapons is that an infused trait on one will also apply the enchantment cooldown reduction on the other, but not the enchantment effect increase. The current best trait setup from what I've tested is nirnhoned main-hand with a poison enchantment with infused off-hand with a weapon damage enchantment. On daedric bosses, a prismatic enchantment on your main hand will grant you more damage than a poison enchantment; in this case, I would go with an infused main-hand with the prismatic enchantment with a precise off-hand with a weapon damage enchantment.

Keep in mind that the sharpened trait is still better than nirnhoned and precise as long as you're not overpenetrating.

That dual ravage health poison on your bow is actually pretty powerful. The gradual ravage health portion of the damage can also pretty much be on par with an infused poison enchantment. However, if you feel particularly cheap, you can always just go with a disease enchantment.

 

Trial Optimization

Optimizing stamina setups in coordinated groups is much more of a flexible subject, one that I would rather not go into detail on. Instead, I highly suggest giving Alcast's Stamina Optimization guide a quick read. Basically, from the above sets, except for TFS, pick any possible (as in, you can't go Hunding's + NMG due to both of them being crafted sets) combination of the two, and prioritize having one set of Sunderflame and NMG in the group first.

 

Newbie Gear

For when you're new to this class and want something easy to acquire and still effective.

Spoiler:

Armor

5pc Hunding's Rage

2pc Night Mother's Gaze (NMG)

All armor - medium Divines - Stamina enchantment

Jewellery

3pc Agility

All jewellery - Robust - Weapon Damage enchantment

Weapons

NMG Dagger - Sharpened - Poison enchantment

NMG Dagger - Infused - Weapon Damage enchantment

NMG Bow - Sharpened - Disease enchantment

 

Untested-but-promising Alt Gear

Spoiler:

Please note that I personally haven't tested these yet; this is theorycrafting territory with no actual experimental basis on my end.

 

Alkosh

Flanking Strategist

Domihaus

 

I can see stamina damage-dealers wearing Alkosh in place of VO; the 5pc synergy proc on it could function as a decent DoT as well as the debuff, and it can be worked into rotations as long as there's a steady stream of synergies.

Flanking might be a great set in fights where you're on the boss' arse consistently.

Domihaus has relatively low proc damage compared to the "meta" sets, but it also grants a decent weapon damage buff if you stand within the proc ring. The proc itself, however, is a thin donut, not a circle, so positioning for the proc to damage to boss is pretty important.

 

Skills

None

DW bar:

Deadly Cloak - amazing defensive skill, and also deals quite a bit of damage

Rending Slashes - a good standard DoT

Hurricane - a good AoE DoT; also grants some great resistances for more survivability

Lightweight Beast Trap - an amazing DoT and source of Minor Force; cast this twice in one rotation, and it even outdamages Razor Caltrops

Bound Armaments - increases your max stamina and heavy attack damage as long as it's toggled; just try not to toggle it off

Flawless Dawnbreaker - slotted for +5% weapon damage, but also a good low-cost ulti in a pinch

 

Bow bar:

Bound Armaments - double barred, because it has to be

Poison Injection - one of your main DoTs

Endless Hail - your highest source of damage; your highest source of damage on crack with vMA bow

Critical Surge - a great defensive skill that grants some amazing healing; keep this up in harder fights

Razor Caltrops - one of your main DoTs; high cost but high damage

Greater Storm Atronach - a decent ultimate with a great buff for a teammate

 

Important flex abilities:

Steel Tornado - replace Rending Slashes for AoE spammable

Resolving Vigor - best heal for stamina players, which really isn't saying a lot, but hey, it might save your team

Shrouded Daggers - typical meta stamsorc spammable, but it's actually useful in some burst fights

Ballista - one of the best ultis you can use; great burst damage, more dps than Storm Atro, perfect for selfish parsing or solo fights

Suppression Field - a great AoE ultimate that also happens to apply your Ruffian passive from Dual Wield; use on trash fights.

 

Unimportant flex abilities:

Silver Shards - a nice ranged spammable that can be useful in certain boss fights where you have to stay at ranged for any amount of time

Shuffle - pretty much a 15% damage mitigation, except powered by RNG

Inner Fire - taunt, for taunting; useful for pretending to be a tank in dungeons

Acid Spray - actually better than Shrouded Daggers, if you really want that cleave damage

 

In this build, you have one flex spot, and that is Critical Surge, though to be honest, I'd say that Critical Surge is the best ability to slot in there due to it being one hell of a self-heal as well as 2% more weapon damage from the Expert Mage passive. For more damage without care for survivability, you can slot a random Fighter's Guild ability for 3% more weapon damage. You can also slot Vigor in case you want to heal your teammates.

With Dragon Bones, the Greater Storm Atronach ultimate is currently the most-desired ultimate for both stamsorcs and magsorcs due to its decent damage and, more importantly, 8s 25% damage boost for whoever synergizes with it. It also has a really good range, so you don't have to summon it directly on top of a boss. In fact, it is encouraged that you place it where the melee damage-dealers are so the tank won't take it and the damage-dealers can synergize with it easily. However, Ballista is still the best ultimate you can use if you want pure damage for yourself.

Another thing to keep in mind is the choice between Razor Caltrops and Anti-Cavalry Caltrops. Rotations are covered below. If your rotations take less than 13 seconds, Razor Caltrops will deal more damage. However, if your rotations take 13 seconds or more, Anti-Cavalry Caltrops will be better. The damage difference between them at 13 seconds, however, is fairly negligible, so it shouldn't matter that much. You can also choose to do one less heavy attack in some rotations and lower the downtime on most of your DoTs, and that should make Razor Caltrops more worthwhile than Anti-Cavalry Caltrops.

One more thing is my choice of Lightweight Beast Trap over Rearming Trap. In my rotations covered below, I will be casting Lightweight Beast Trap twice, which will keep Minor Force up. Lightweight Trap also deals much more damage than Rearming Trap, and from my own testing, casting Lightweight Trap twice actually outdamages a Rearming Trap + Shrouded Daggers rotation. Additionally, this frees up an extra flex slot for me to slot Critical Surge, and lengthens the amount of time I am on my front bar by 1s, also boosting my damage. So far, this rotation grants the highest amount of single target damage, and I personally prefer it this way because I have enough AoE damage already from Endless Hail, Caltrops, Deadly Cloak, and Hurricane.

Just remember that heavy weaving into Lightweight Beast Trap requires a bit more timing finesse, same with Caltrops; a trick is to cast that ability when your weapons start swinging, not before they're finished winding up.

 

What about the cleave damage from Shrouded Daggers?

I understand if people prefer cleave damage (even though you might as well use Steel Tornado on trash and ignore the cleave on bosses). Here are some variants on the meta rotation most end-game stamsorcs use.

("-" no weave; ">" light attack; ">>" heavy attack; "|" barswap)

Spoiler:

DW v.1: 11.5s rotation, easy to sustain, current meta

>> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers >> Hurricane |

DW v.2: 12.5s rotation

>> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers >> Shrouded Daggers > Hurricane |

DW v.3: 12s rotation, most damage, hard to sustain

>> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers > Shrouded Daggers > Hurricane |

Bow:

> Endless Hail > Rearming Trap > Poison Injection > Caltrops (> Ballista) |

If you really want that cleave damage and can not sustain the v.3 version of the rotation listed above, try Acid Spray. This also gives you room to frontbar Rearming Trap, so you get 3% more weapon damage on your frontbar. Only thing you'll lose out on is the execute damage and the spammability of Shrouded Daggers, but at this point you'll have dealt much more damage from Acid Spray already. Look at me, breaking the meta without even playing it.

Spoiler:

DW:

>> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Rearming Trap >> Hurricane |

Bow:

> Endless Hail > Poison Injection > Caltrops > Acid Spray (> Ballista) |

Shout-out to BlackMamba19 for helping me test this!

Optimal raid blue CP for this setup: 66 Thuamaturge, 61 Precise Strikes, 64 Mighty, 15 Piercing, and 34 Master-at-Arms.

Based off of BlackMamba19's CP for this setup in CwC: 61 Thuamaturge, 56 Precise Strikes, 64 Mighty, 18 Piercing, and 31 Master-at-Arms.

 

Rotations

Keep in mind that these are the rotations that I use and find work well for me.

("-" no weave; ">" light attack; ">>" heavy attack; "|" barswap)

DW:

>> Lightweight Trap >> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Hurricane > Lightweight Trap |

Bow:

> Endless Hail > Poison Injection > Caltrops ( > Storm Atronach ) |

Starting rotation:

Hurricane - Deadly Cloak | - Endless Hail | - Lightweight Trap | > Poison Injection > Caltrops > Storm Atronach | >> Rending Slashes >> Lightweight Trap >> Deadly Cloak > Hurricane > Lightweight Trap | [Resume on Bow Bar]

 

This rotation length is ~12 seconds per rotation, approximately the length of Razor Caltrops.

Keep in mind that your ping can have an impact on your rotation lengths. A difference in 150ms ping is equal to about 0.2s difference per heavy attack and 0.1s per light attack. Based on that, you may want to tweak the number of heavy attacks you do to match the rotation length, and maybe switch out your Automaton gear for VO if you need a bit more sustain.

(~250ms ping, ~13s rotation; ~100ms ping, ~11.5s rotation)

 

Here's a video of my rotations.

Spoiler:

 

AoE:

I like how I go into so much detail on the single-target parsing aspect of this build, but in trials, killing trash quickly is just as important. This is the setup I use for it.

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Suppression Field is there due to it buffing the Ruffian passive from Dual Wield. However, keep in mind that Suppression Field does not work on elite enemies, such as the Sun-Eater in MoL. They do, however, work on smaller enemies, such as the spheres in HoF. In any case, if you are up against elite enemies, just use your Flawless Dawnbreaker instead.

>> Steel Tornado(/Flawless Dawnbreaker) >> Steel Tornado >> Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado > Deadly Cloak > Hurricane | > Endless Hail > Razor Caltrops ( > Suppression Field ) |

Right after casting Suppression Field:

> Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado > Steel Tornado >> Deadly Cloak >> Hurricane | > Endless Hail > Razor Caltrops |

 

Parses

Solo 6mil skeleton parse (TFS + MA + Kra'gh's, Solo CP setup)

Spoiler:

None

Raid parses

Spoiler:

NoneNone

 

Feedback

If you have any concerns or questions about anything this guide, feel free to voice them in here and I'll be glad to address them for you.

If you have any suggestions for alternative gear or rotations, I would love it if you post it here as well! It's always fun to experiment with different builds and learn new stuff.

About HatchetHaro:

Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

40 Replies
  1. #21

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    kinettic29 wrote on November 28, 2017

    Thx also if im using nmg and vo is it worth replacing vo with automation on jewelry and 2 armor

    Hard to say. I typically don't like to drop VO because I love the sustain from the 5pc bonus, but if you're looking for more raw damage it is worth replacing VO with Automaton.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  2. #22

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts

    Just a slight correction with my ping observations; I've reviewed some footage I've captured from both my time in Hong Kong and the US, and heavy attack weaves only take about 0.2s longer while light attack weaves do take about 0.1s longer, at 250ms ping in comparison to 100ms. The end result is still about the same and this research goes much better with what I have observed than my previous assumption of 0.4s per heavy.

    Hopefully this information helps people at higher ping to plan out their rotations.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  3. #23

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts

    Updated once more, this time actually related to the meta rotations most other end-game stamsorcs use, so nothing changed with my own rotations; they use Rearming Trap and Shrouded Daggers, casting Shrouded Daggers once or twice in a rotation.

    Meta rotation:

    Spoiler:

    DW v.1: 11.5s rotation, easy to sustain

    >> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers >> Hurricane |

    DW v.2: 12.5s rotation

    >> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers >> Shrouded Daggers > Hurricane |

    DW v.3: 12s rotation, most damage, hard to sustain

    >> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Shrouded Daggers > Shrouded Daggers > Hurricane |

    Bow:

    > Endless Hail > Rearming Trap > Poison Injection > Caltrops (> Ballista) |

     

    Basically, Acid Spray is more damage than Shrouded Daggers. So if you really want that cleave damage and are not using the v.3 version of the rotation listed above, try Acid Spray. This also gives you room to frontbar Rearming Trap, so you get 3% more weapon damage on your frontbar.

    Acid Spray rotation:

    Spoiler:

    DW:

    >> Rending Slashes >> Deadly Cloak >> Rearming Trap >> Hurricane |

    Bow:

    > Endless Hail > Poison Injection > Caltrops > Acid Spray (> Ballista) |

    Optimal blue raid CP for Acid Spray rotation: 61 Thuamaturge, 56 Precise Strikes, 64 Mighty, 18 Piercing, and 31 Master-at-Arms

    Credit goes to BlackMamba19 for helping me test a lot of the stuff here as well as for the CP!

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  4. #24

    Atropos

    Administrator3185 Posts

    Thanks for the update @HatchetHaro. Thinking of coming back to play some the newer ESO content while I'm between things and I think this is the build I'll pivot my existing stam sorc into. Glad to see that viable endgame rotations have moved away from spamming a single skill while refreshing buffs on timer.

    Creator of Ashen Foundry and Tamriel Foundry. Former guildmaster of Entropy Rising. Economist and MMO enthusiast.

  5. #25

    marysvillain

    Member5 Posts

    how much pen is good enough for solo/random pub dungeons? I have not yet been active in trials or even in vMA and I was thinking about having a set of nightmothers gaze crafted to start. Wearing Kra'gh and with champion points alloted, is this not overkill for pen? i have no idea what i should be aiming for here. I am planning to try and farm vMA weapons with this char first once I get geared up.

  6. #26

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    marysvillain wrote on January 25, 2018

    how much pen is good enough for solo/random pub dungeons? I have not yet been active in trials or even in vMA and I was thinking about having a set of nightmothers gaze crafted to start. Wearing Kra’gh and with champion points alloted, is this not overkill for pen? i have no idea what i should be aiming for here. I am planning to try and farm vMA weapons with this char first once I get geared up.

    It shouldn't be overkill. Kra'gh's is not much penetration to start with, and since you said that you've not been active in trials, I assume you also don't have TFS.

    With Kra'gh's, NMG, and Major Fracture, you'll be sitting at 9447 armor penetration; you still have 8735 to go to reach full penetration (18200). At that point, just follow the CP in my guide and dump 38 into piercing, and even then you'll still have room for TFS or the Lover Mundus Stone before you begin to overpenetrate.

    So without TFS, that's actually pretty much the next best setup you can go for.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  7. #27

    marysvillain

    Member5 Posts
    HatchetHaro wrote on January 26, 2018

    marysvillain said on January 25, 2018 :

    how much pen is good enough for solo/random pub dungeons? I have not yet been active in trials or even in vMA and I was thinking about having a set of nightmothers gaze crafted to start. Wearing Kra’gh and with champion points alloted, is this not overkill for pen? i have no idea what i should be aiming for here. I am planning to try and farm vMA weapons with this char first once I get geared up.

    It shouldn’t be overkill. Kra’gh’s is not much penetration to start with, and since you said that you’ve not been active in trials, I assume you also don’t have TFS.

    With Kra’gh’s, NMG, and Major Fracture, you’ll be sitting at 9447 armor penetration; you still have 8735 to go to reach full penetration (18200). At that point, just follow the CP in my guide and dump 38 into piercing, and even then you’ll still have room for TFS or the Lover Mundus Stone before you begin to overpenetrate.

    So without TFS, that’s actually pretty much thenext best setup you can go for.

    ya i've got my NMG and Kra'ghs now. I'm working on automaton i finished jewelry but need weapons still. So would you recommend with Kra'gh's, NMG, Automaton, and major fracture to take the Lover mundus over the warrior? even though i wouldnt be overpenetrating would it be worth?

     

  8. #28

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    marysvillain wrote on January 27, 2018

    HatchetHaro said on January 26, 2018 :

    It shouldn’t be overkill. Kra’gh’s is not much penetration to start with, and since you said that you’ve not been active in trials, I assume you also don’t have TFS.

    With Kra’gh’s, NMG, and Major Fracture, you’ll be sitting at 9447 armor penetration; you still have 8735 to go to reach full penetration (18200). At that point, just follow the CP in my guide and dump 38 into piercing, and even then you’ll still have room for TFS or the Lover Mundus Stone before you begin to overpenetrate.

    So without TFS, that’s actually pretty much thenext best setup you can go for.

    ya i’ve got my NMG and Kra’ghs now. I’m working on automaton i finished jewelry but need weapons still. So would you recommend with Kra’gh’s, NMG, Automaton, and major fracture to take the Lover mundus over the warrior? even though i wouldnt be overpenetrating would it be worth?

    Maybe. I think this is just a thing that you'll have to decide on your own. There are benefits to both, but when it comes to just doing dungeons and normal trials, you shouldn't have to worry about little details like that. Flip a coin!

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  9. #29

    marysvillain

    Member5 Posts

    ok thanks. one last question, am I correct in reading that your optimal setup uses 1 axe 1 dagger? or 2 dagger?

  10. #30

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    marysvillain wrote on January 28, 2018

    ok thanks. one last question, am I correct in reading that your optimal setup uses 1 axe 1 dagger? or 2 dagger?

    1 axe 1 dagger is more single-target damage, but that's assuming that you're constantly on the boss you're fighting over a moderate period of time and can weave perfectly.

    Otherwise, going double daggers is more damage, and also applies to AOE circumstances, so that's what most people choose to use in trials.

    Either works; just comes down to personal preference.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  11. #31

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts

    I've finally fully updated (well, pretty much fully updated) my guide for Dragon Bones!

    I've also added an AoE portion, near the bottom. In scorepushing trials, speed in killing trash matters just as much as single-target dps on a boss. Even if you're not scorepushing or even doing trials, it's a great setup to just use on trash in general.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  12. #32

    Latin

    Moderator1307 Posts

    Thanks for the update.

    Have you actually tested the Mechanical Acuity (MA) with Axe/Sword setup? If so, how does it compare against Axe/Dagger? I'm under the impression that even though MA proc effect is relatively stronger at a lower crit chance, it's only up by ~27% of the time, so wouldn't the Dagger crit be better for dps over the remaining 73% of the time?

    On the weapon traits for Daedric bosses, why is it that a precise offhand with weapon damage enchant preferred over an infused one?

    e pluribus unum

  13. #33

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    Latin wrote on March 18, 2018

    Thanks for the update.

    Have you actually tested the Mechanical Acuity (MA) with Axe/Sword setup? If so, how does it compare against Axe/Dagger? I'm under the impression that even though MA proc effect is relatively stronger at a lower crit chance, it's only up by ~27% of the time, so wouldn't the Dagger crit be better for dps over the remaining 73% of the time?

    On the weapon traits for Daedric bosses, why is it that a precise offhand with weapon damage enchant preferred over an infused one?

    I haven't tested an Axe/Sword setup yet; that is why it is still in red as per usual for my untested stuff. Unfortunately, I find myself stripped of time, motivation, and materials to fully test those. However, I can safely say that Axe/Dagger remains the meta, and my theory is that the Axe/Sword setup still wouldn't be as potent as Axe/Dagger, even with MA.

    Dual wield weapon traits are quite peculiar. Here, using Infused on one weapon will also apply the same enchantment cooldown reduction on the other weapon, but not the enchantment power increase.

    I decided to go with a Precise offhand with a Weapon Damage enchantment because it is already paired with an Infused mainhand with a Prismatic enchantment.

    As for why I decided to go with Infused instead of Nirnhoned on the mainhand for the Prismatic enchantment, I find that putting Infused on it is better due to the higher damage from the Prismatic enchantment itself. With a Poison enchantment, however, I'd go with Nirnhoned/Infused instead because the higher weapon damage from the Weapon Damage enchantment outweighs the boost to the damage from the Poison enchantment.

    Traits are quite finicky, but here is a formula I think would describe it better and much simpler: prioritize having one piece Infused, then the other weapon should be Nirnhoned if mainhand, and Precise if offhand. In non-penetration-optimized scenarios such as vMA, however, Sharpened would be better than Nirnhoned and Precise.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  14. #34

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    Latin wrote on March 18, 2018

    Have you actually tested the Mechanical Acuity (MA) with Axe/Sword setup? If so, how does it compare against Axe/Dagger? I'm under the impression that even though MA proc effect is relatively stronger at a lower crit chance, it's only up by ~27% of the time, so wouldn't the Dagger crit be better for dps over the remaining 73% of the time?

    Okay, an update!

    I think swords might just be better than daggers overall. Keep in mind though, this is just spreadsheet maths, and the damage difference between double swords and double daggers is only 0.9% and that is if you're on your frontbar 100% of the time. Realistically the damage difference would be more like 0.6%, even lower with higher Major Force uptime and extra damage buffs like Minor and Major Berserk which the sword damage bonus is additive to.

    So basically, they're kind of on-par with each other. If you already have daggers, you don't have to bother crafting swords.

    None

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  15. #35

    kinettic29

    Member45 Posts

    With the meta rotation version 2 using 2 shrouded daggers  does hail drop off the target and isnt thst a loss if it does? Also in an optimal trial group parse whats the optimal cp for that rotation for blue tree ty in advance.

  16. #36

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    kinettic29 wrote on April 5, 2018

    With the meta rotation version 2 using 2 shrouded daggers  does hail drop off the target and isnt thst a loss if it does? Also in an optimal trial group parse whats the optimal cp for that rotation for blue tree ty in advance.

    Yes, which is why people actually don't use it anymore in Dragon Bones. They mostly use the v.1 rotation instead.

    I don't really have any tested CP for that, but my own CP for my main build should work just fine. Perhaps transfer a few points from Thaumaturge to Master-at-Arms.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  17. #37

    Drgneb

    Member267 Posts

    Ok, wont ask stam or mag since it states you only ever play stam...sorted. So, Dk or Sorc? As stated in other posts I am returning player with old ass toons with old gear, hundings and such, and no clue as to what is really viable now for open/pve/dungeons and such. Any tips?

    Cheers!

    Oh and everything is so old and outdated?

  18. #38

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    Drgneb wrote on April 11, 2018

    Ok, wont ask stam or mag since it states you only ever play stam...sorted. So, Dk or Sorc? As stated in other posts I am returning player with old ass toons with old gear, hundings and such, and no clue as to what is really viable now for open/pve/dungeons and such. Any tips?

    Cheers!

    Oh and everything is so old and outdated?

    This guide is fully up-to-date for Dragon Bones.

    DK for more utility, sustain, and flexibility, Sorc for survivability and AoE damage.

    For pug dungeons, anything would work. I don't have many tips for people other than practicing your rotations on a dummy.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

  19. #39

    Mithax

    Member6 Posts

    I would love to see an update on this if you're still playing. 

  20. #40

    HatchetHaro

    Contributor52 Posts
    Mithax wrote on May 25, 2018

    I would love to see an update on this if you're still playing. 

    Unfortunately, while I am still playing, I will not be updating this guide for now due to real life complications. Maybe that will change in the future; we'll see.

    Only ever plays stam DK and stamsorc.

    Literally only good at stam DK and stamsorc.

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