Tamriel Foundry

Fog of War?

Two extreme (and unlikely) Fog of War conditions could be:

1. Full on - each time you enter the Cyrodiil campaign instance the map is greyed out (which i hate for areas i've previously explored), there is no list available anywhere as to who is in the instance with you, with the notable exception of your guild mates whom you are in contact with. You only know if an enemy is close by through the sounds of combat etc. Reports from Fortresses you own that are under attack are sketchy and vague and somewhat 'dated' - "Fortress Kvatch sustained an attack several hours ago" or "Fortress Kvatch watchtowers report seeing enemy movement 3 hours ago"

2: None - each time you enter the Cyrodiil campaign instance the map is fully drawn - three faded color areas represent the territory under each factions control - a fourth color indicates neutral/contested territory. Small color keyed dots represent all the interesting information: siege weapons that are built, siege weapons currently under construction, resource locations indicating  what they are and under who's control. Other dots represent every individual in the instance and where they are (catastrophic in my opinion), scaled and real level, class, number of kills vs. losses etc - if these dots are blinking they are currently engaged in combat.

Any Fortress in Cyrodiil would give very detailed reports in a timely manner, even if it concerned an encounter between the other two factions - "AD Fortress Kvatch reports troops from DC massing and anticipates an attack", "AD Fortress Kvatch is being attacked by 38 members of the Ebonhart Pact supported by 3 trebuchets and 5 ballistae and is expected to fall within 27 minutes unless they are repelled"

 

Somewhere between these two extremes lays what will actually be put in place.

I welcome speculation of the various possibilities and combinations as to the amount of information you think should/should not be divulged within the Cyrodiil campaigns. (ZOS has already stated that there will be notifications from Fortresses under attack - i don't believe we know the details yet)

(Since the varying degrees of info available could greatly influence an individuals PvP game play experience, strategy and tactics by either enhancing it, or ruining it, please try and read and understand other individuals posts regardless of which 'side' the poster is coming from, and if you disagree, be it somewhat or totally, to respond in a civil and engaging manner that invites even further and deeper discussion)

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17 Replies
  1. #1

    Atropos

    Administrator3186 Posts

    I suspect you'll be able to see the entire map, and the live status of control points (keeps/outposts/towns). You'll also probably get a slightly delayed visual notification that these locations are under attack. Certainly not the location of individual players or siege weapons though.

    I think most of the "fog of war" in RvR comes from not knowing the location of players,  rather than not knowing features of the terrain.  As far as that is concerned, I think ZOS will preserve a large amount of uncertainty.

    Creator of Ashen Foundry and Tamriel Foundry. Former guildmaster of Entropy Rising. Economist and MMO enthusiast.

  2. #2

    Dleatherus

    Member458 Posts
    Atropos wrote on December 31, 2012

    I suspect you’ll be able to see the entire map, and the live status of control points (keeps/outposts/towns). You’ll also probably get a slightly delayed visual notification that these locations are under attack. Certainly not the location of individual players or siege weapons though.

    I think most of the “fog of war” in RvR comes from not knowing the location of players,  rather than not knowing features of the terrain.  As far as that is concerned, I think ZOS will preserve a large amount of uncertainty.

    do you think we'll get to see the live status of control points that are under control of just your guild, just your alliance, or would you get to see the live status of all control points on the map, even if your alliance hadn't even gotten that far in that particular campaign yet?

    how likely or desirable is it that you could at least see your guild/and or party members as pinpoints on the small radar map?

    (i think with voice chat people can check in and report their location fairly easily and accurately already, as well as any enemy they have come across etc so the feature in many ways is a moot point)

     

    Guild Leader of The Noore
  3. #3

    Blade

    Contributor1588 Posts

    I think that the Full On fog system seems really awesome, but I can find it becoming annoying pretty fast. I imagine that the entire map will be visible, and you'll be able to see which faction owns what keeps (possibly which guilds?).

  4. #4

    Felyx Fidelys

    Member223 Posts

    I'd like to see the full on fog system, minus the map not being full each time you enter and the status of keeps or other tactical points. As far as player location, I don't think that should show up on the map - especially because ZOS wants us to "play the game and not the UI"... I'd constantly be pulling up the map if it showed every player location (and that sounds like a lot of load time if there were a lot of moving players). I don't think it would be unreasonable for party members to show up anywhere on the map though... not sure about your entire guild but maybe.

    An overall status of the campaign would be nice as well. Such as progress towards victory and time remaining. If the complete fog were on, then I suppose you'd only get this information by visiting a keep or tactical point under your control.

    .

  5. #5

    Dleatherus

    Member458 Posts

    @Felyx Fidelys

    the full on system would mean in part that instead of groups roaming around 'looking for a fight' a lot more strategy of scouting and intel gathering would need to be carried out - this would require as @Blade points out more time and patience, and could for some be frustrating who are looking for a 'quick' PvP encounter

    at the same time it would, in addition to having the need for excellent combat tactics, bring into play a far deeper role in terms of strategy planning where sometimes a smaller group by being better organized, could have a very nice strategic advantage of a larger zerg type force, and therefore by extension, a far deeper richer gaming environment

     

    acknowledging this wouldn't appeal to all, it might be sweet if they had a choice for the 'fog of war level' of campaign you wanted to sign up for where on their (ZOS) end it might be as 'simple' as toggling on or off certain of those features in Cyrodiil

    Guild Leader of The Noore
  6. #6

    Elember

    Member349 Posts

    I don't remember any fog of war in DAoC or maybe it was that after you had been there once it stayed fog free. I wonder if someone who has played DAoC more recently then I have could comment on this, because you can bet it will be the same as it was in DAoC everything else seems to be. I only played DAoC for the first 5 years it was live and the beta.

  7. #7

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    Id like the idea of discovering places, and not seeing on map, it'd make PvP more fun, finding a secluded/hidden area more spectacular and give more depth into the game personally

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  8. #8

    Baba Yaga

    Member203 Posts

    I like the idea of having to keep your head on a swivel in the RvR area, send our scouts, etc., so I favor a thick fog of war.

    DAOC, Palomides, Midgard, EpiK: Baba Yaga

    COH, Virtue, The Dawn Patrol:  Cassandra, Pixie Blade

    Elder Scrolls Online, Aldmeri Dominion, The Noore (formerly Bosmer Brotherhood of Archers)

  9. #9

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts

    I think the map exploration thing (where something doesn't show in the map until you go there once) might be in Cyrodiil (maybe not even that). Also, I believe your group/ raid will show on the map, but your enemies won't, this is how it normally works. I'm also pretty sure there will be different map colours indicating who controls which keep and warnings in the screen to tell us which place is being attacked (though I'm not sure what kind of details they will include on those warnings). Maybe they have an indication of where combat is happening like in GW2 you have two crossed swords on the map indicating combat.

    The reason why the have those mechanics is to not frustrate the player base. I agree that a thicker fog of war increases immersion and can be fun, but after a few months, people start to get tired of it and they do less PvP because the mechanics to find out what is going on before you act is a burden. For the most part in the MMO community people want easy and fast fun, this is what games aim for these days. You go into Cyrodiil, open the map, quickly understand where the fight is and what is going on and then proceed to join the fight. Experienced players know where they have to be and where the group should be attacking considering the current situation, they quickly communicate with others on local and join the party.

    With a thick fog of war this would take longer and be harder to do, the player would spend a few minutes only to figure out where people are and what is going on, it is not very practical, so it quickly becomes a burden in MMOs. People might think it is fun in the beginning but not so much later, so I think the fog of war in this game won't be very thick.

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  10. #10

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts
    Elember wrote on December 31, 2012

    I don’t remember any fog of war in DAoC or maybe it was that after you had been there once it stayed fog free. I wonder if someone who has played DAoC more recently then I have could comment on this, because you can bet it will be the same as it was in DAoC everything else seems to be. I only played DAoC for the first 5 years it was live and the beta.

    • This reply was modified 1 week, 6 days ago by Avatar of Elember Elember.

    From what I remember the map was completely open and it showed which realm had which keep; outside of that I am unsure.  At the sametime they may have been me looking at the camelotherald website that had that information, too.

  11. #11

    Aaren Ice-vein

    Member118 Posts

    Personally I say that when in Cyrodiil make the enemy players name plates hidden unless you click have cross hairs on them that would make it so the map could remain open and allow players to utilize ambushes and such with out being given away because their name is giving away their location.

    The Iceman

  12. #12

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    This thread is about fog of war? Names on players should not come up unless you put your cross-hair on them, simple as that, other whys whats the point of assassins, ambushes, rogues, archers etc etc etc.

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  13. #13

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 14, 2013

    This thread is about fog of war? Names on players should not come up unless you put your cross-hair on them, simple as that, other whys whats the point of assassins, ambushes, rogues, archers etc etc etc.

    agreed.  I can't see them having people running around with their names above their heads all the time in RvR.  Then you get the people who make the name "." (just adding paratheses so I don't put a period after a period).

  14. #14

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @schnoffle exactly a world of problems, people playing RP would be spotted because of their name, and douche elites would be OP because they have 'o `o' (you need to have first and last name) as their name or some shit so they can't be spotted as easy

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  15. #15

    LGAllastair

    Member573 Posts
    Panterra Arius wrote on January 14, 2013

    @schnoffle exactly a world of problems, people playing RP would be spotted because of their name, and douche elites would be OP because they have ‘o `o’ (you need to have first and last name) as their name or some shit so they can’t be spotted as easy

    Not to mention that the guild tag would be a problem, especially if you join "The Noble House of Tamriel's Heroes" :D  I think this is a no brainer really, hiding nameplates unless you mouse over/ target is basic.

    Allastair – High Elder of Legend Gaming

  16. #16

    Panterra Arius

    Banned602 Posts

    @LGAllastair haha i agree, and name appearing should not be a distance but strictly cross-hair aiming, because then a backstab doesn't work due to the 3rd person screen camera.

    With the guidance of Apollo, Paris struck down the invincible Aristos Achaion. – i shall do my part to guide The BBoA.

     

    Join the BBoA guild - http://bosmerarchers.enjin.com/

  17. #17

    Dr Olaf

    Member2 Posts

    Fog of war all the way

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