Tamriel Foundry

Crafting EXTREMELY Important, and other stuff

I wanted to make sure you guys watched this interview from yesterday with MMORPG.com and Creative Director Paul Sage. It has a lot of good nuggets in it about the beta, guilds and crafting.

This is a little bit on the crafting: "First and foremost, Paul wanted to make sure we all know that crafting will be vitally important not only to the economy, but to the players as a whole. The gear you get from crafting will be just as viable as that which you get from questing, dungeons, and the like.  In fact, Paul suggested that the players who are decked out the most will be those who partake in all facets of the game.  They want people to be able to play the game how they like, and if that means crafting is their main way to get items, then so be it.  If they don't care about crafting, that's fine too.  But nevertheless, crafting is going to be a very vibrant and detailed part of the game's overarching economy and it won't be the same-ol' same-ol' crafting we've grown used to in recent MMO offerings."

Watch the interview here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GNHb0KvxBec

Read the overview here.

http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/821/feature/7061/Paul-Sage-Talks-Beta-Crafting-and-Progression.html

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43 Replies
  1. #21

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts

    @Shakir i dont think that having it be like skyrim means the gear is the exact same.  I think it just means the mechanics and such are similar, i.e armor smith may need to focus on heavy vs light.

    I do like the fact that you can only master one specific craft, at least from what it sounds like.  That makes it relevant for different crafters to sell different items, and someone can't just master them all and have no need for an economy

  2. #22

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    I like also the fact that you can only master one crafting class. Everything else would be anti- MMO, because you need the interaction between players. My point is, that you have to make the gear from end game dungeons more powerful than in Skyrim, i.e. the Daedric Artifacts. You agree, they are a joke, or not?

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  3. #23

    Blade

    Contributor1588 Posts
    Shakir wrote on January 24, 2013

    I like also the fact that you can only master one crafting class.

    Where did you get this information? No one ever said that you could only master one crafting skill, please stop spreading misinformation.

  4. #24

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts

    some of the daedric artifacts are a joke in skyrim, and more for fun.  Peryite (spelling?) shield is baller.

     

    I dont see the daedric gear (if available) being like that in TESO.  I am sure some of the gear with be for fun to play with and more for social interaction, but end game gear will be just as good as craftable, and that is what is important.  You can't assume the exact stats/perks on the Skyrim daedric gear will be the same in TESP.

    And my guess is that you will find certain types of gear in dungeons that aren't craftable, maybe with certain stats/perks, while crafted gear gives others.  Maybe if you want a necklace with a certain resist, only a jeweler/enchanter can make it vs one with stam regen that is only dropped?

  5. #25

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    @Blade

    Lookilook ;-)

     

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GNHb0KvxBec

    There they say you can only maximize one crafting class. You can get to a certain level in another crafting class, though, but not to 100%.

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  6. #26

    Byronyk

    Member421 Posts

    @Shakir

    Blade is correct. No where in that video does he say that you are forced to only have one crafting profession. He says that to be good at a profession, you have to focus and work hard on your profession (to be recognized in the community as "that guy who makes that one chest piece"). Can you name one modern MMO that forces the player to only have one crafting profession?

    Watch 18:00-19:00. Listen carefully.

  7. #27

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts

    from the way he explained it, it sounds like you can be trivial in certain skills, but you need to focus a particular one to master...just my interpretation

  8. #28

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    @Byronyk

    Sorry, I don't want to be offensive, but I used the exact words of the developer. "I like also the fact that you can only master one crafting class."

    Master, in words of maximize, get the best out of it, to be the best there ever was... I never said that you can not skill another crafting class to a certain level, but that's what he said, if you want to be the best in a crafting class, you have to choose.

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  9. #29

    Ravin

    Member1264 Posts

    Interesting if that is true.  I'd have to master Alchemy than.

    Death is a guarantee;  Life is not.

  10. #30

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    @schnoffle

    Yeah, Spellbreaker is great for mid-game, but for endgame it's not so good because the ward is only up to 50 points.

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  11. #31

    Blade

    Contributor1588 Posts

    @Shakir

    [quote]Paul Sage: 18:12-18:47 "Crafting is really about a trial. I wanna go out and be able to go into the world, and I just wanna be able to craft. I wanna be able to try alchemy, I wanna be able to try blacksmithing. We say, absoutley you can go try it, but when you wanna master something you really need to set it on, this is what I wanna master, this is the thing that is most important to me, and that's how you find your place in the community of I'm the best person for getting... say this armor." [/quote]

    So let's look at this direct quote without jumping to conclusions, and look at previous mmo's as a guide of what crafting might be. Paul Sage never once in this video says with absolute, that you may only level one crafting skill to mastery. What Paul Sage says, is sort of a "we're encouraging you to do this". This could be because they deem crafting as a hard skill to level, or trying to acquire recipes for a crafting skill could be a long drawn out process. This doesn't mean that a player will be physically unable to level multiple crafting skills to mastery level, this only means that crafting may be harder to level than past mmos.

    Paul Sage also never says that you can level more than one crafting skill. His statement was extremely unclear, and very vague; however, it would not be uncommon in an mmo to be able to level more than one crafting skill.

  12. #32

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    @Blade

    Yes, this is what I am talking about. I am really not an MMO- expert, I'm honest. But for example, let's take WoW. You have 11 primary crafting classes, in the yet known Elder Scrolls world you have three. Would it not be totally anti-social and anti-multiplayer gaming, if one person could master all three, even if it would take lots of hard work? That would be a WoW char with 11 mastered crafting classes, for example. He would be absolutely independent and could start his "One- Man- Guild"... I think, in my opinion, that's not MMO- style. We have to think that it is a multiplayer game and the social element is the most important.

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  13. #33

    Felyx Fidelys

    Member223 Posts

    @Shakir that's a very good point about encouraging cooperation - I think community is something that people often neglect when speculating about game mechanics. However, extrapolating from an example with only 3 available crafting classes to one with 11 (nearly 4 times as many) is quite extreme. WOW currently allows you to master 2 crafting classes as well as cooking, fishing, and first aid; that's a little under half.

    Going back to your point about this being an MMO (and not a single-player game, like the Elder Scrolls we know) there could very well be more than three crafting classes. Tailoring and woodworking come to mind as possible inclusions. So now we're hypothetically up to 5 choices which means (drawing from WOW) 2 to 3 possible masterys. You still do not have access to 50% of the crafting content on your own, but you are at least functional enough to make a profit or be helpful.

    In conclusion: Yes, it would be ridiculous to be able to master each crafting class; it would also be ridiculous to only master one with so many other options available. You can see where this is going - MMO mechanics must be balanced and cooperative, but they must also have enough depth for players to be able to enhance their own character via crafting (or any other character progression mechanic).

    .

  14. #34

    Dash

    Member684 Posts
    Shakir wrote on January 24, 2013

    in the yet known Elder Scrolls world you have three

    There has been gamer speculation ranging anywhere from the three types of crafting prevalent in TES all the way to 12-13 crafts at launch. Did I miss a blog stating that we are stuck with a mere three in TESO?

  15. #35

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    All I am talking about is balance and social cooperation. My opinion is, that you could only master one of the three main "branches" alchemy, enchanting or smiting. When you could master smithing to create the deadliest weapons and you are also a master of alchemy, so you could create your own mighty potions and poisons, that would be unfair and unbalanced. Ii's an MMO, so there should be a lot of interaction among these three "branches", in a guild and/or in the alliance.

    My personal speculation is, that they keep the three crafting classes alchemy, enchanting and smithing, but you could get only one to 100%, one to 75% and one to 50%. But that's only speculation...

    @Dash

    I said, yet known Elder Scrolls world, not Elder Scrolls Online world. We know not much about crafting yet and this interview has been given us the most infomation until now, I think...

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  16. #36

    Sagemoon

    Member95 Posts

    It is pure speculation but instead of putting hard limits on how much crafting you can do, they might either softcap it or have your skill decay if you are a really high level and you do not use it for a while.

    Softcapping would be where if you get to 100 in one skill then it might take two or three times a long to get to 100 in the second skill, and then 4-9 times as long to max out the third. A system like that would probably annoy all the 100% completion people, but it would add in diminishing returns for someone who tried to be a master of all trades. The jack of all trades role, i.e. 50-75 in all crafting skills might still apply, but it would be very hard/impossible to get 100 in everything. This might make it really hard to switch crafting skills if you get bored with your existing profession though, so I think it is the more unlikely option.

    The other alternative is to have skill decay once you get past a certain level, i.e. if you hit past level 80 in a skill say 84 and then you do not use it much for a week or so, your skill decays back down to 80. That would frustrate a lot of people, but it would probably be the least lore breaking solution, since skills decay in real life if you do not use them. This also seems to fit with what they were saying about focusing on skills you want, since you could dabble in everything but you would have to focus ont he profession you were really interested in.

    Anyway, they might also let you max everything, but I think it is likely that they will introduce some sort of limitation on crafting skills. To avoid having one crafter rule them all.

  17. #37

    schnoffle

    Member961 Posts

    I honestly hope you can only truly master one crafting trade.  I just feel like that helps promote the in game trade economy.  Sure you can level multiple, but to get to a certain level, so to speak, I think you should just be able to pick one.  ie player 1 is a master smith and can make kick ass gear for lvl 50s, while player 2 is a master alchemist but still spent time smithing and can make decent gear for a lvl 50 not near the master smith.  Then, for those that want that skyrim feeling they can work on multiple trades, butt similar to skyrim you can't use your perks in all your trades and still be effective as a player.

  18. #38

    Shaigh

    Member831 Posts
    • Aion had a system where you could start on all crafting skills, and it was quite easy to reach a certain level. (similar to what we heard in the interview).
    • You could learn all gathering skills (identical to ESO)
    • To get master level you had to do a dreadful crafting quests so that there were few that became masters in one craft (in the interview we heard it was going to be hard).
    • You could only become master of two crafts (speculative answer)
    • Given the trouble to become master in one craft it was extremely rare that someone became master of two. (depends how hard it is to master one craft)

     

     

     

  19. #39

    Shakir

    Member65 Posts

    I like your idea most, @Shaigh, gathering like in Elder Scrolls, and with a lot of effort  to master one, and lots of more to master two, but there is the cap, because mastering all three would be inbalanced.

    I'm still curious about @Blade 's opinion about crafting and balance, because she has a lot of experience and is the site founder.

    ”Psst. Hey, I know who you are. Hail Sithis!”

  20. #40

    Byronyk

    Member421 Posts
    Shakir wrote on January 25, 2013

    I’m still curious about @Blade ‘s opinion about crafting and balance, because she has a lot of experience and is the site founder.

    He wasn't as much concerned with balance, as much with the issue of spreading misinformation. Don't take this the wrong way, but I spend the majority of my day correcting misinformation on the forums and it's nothing personal.

    In terms of balance, I think we're not really concerned about crafting balance. As others have said in this thread, while we wish crafting was more then it is in other modern MMO's, we're not expecting Zenimax to reinvent the wheel. Crafting gear will probably be good until raid content or at least as good during the first tier. After that (and during), crafting will serve the purpose of augmenting your gear which will never lose it's usefulness.

    As for the social aspect of crafting, I think it's two sided. On one hand, you could limit the number of professions and force people to seek out others for their needs. On the other hand, you give each individual player the satisfaction of being self reliant and being able to offer his multiple crafting goods for sale in /trade. Each side is social, however we're more likely to see the second option simply because of the direct quote @Blade linked earlier.

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