The Simple Sorcerer: PvP Build

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    Malic

    Master

    Total Posts: 741

    Imperial Nightblade

    Foreword: unlike my other builds this will not be an extensive narrative it will be simple, mostly.

    Race: High Elf – Everything about this race choice supports a magicka based Sorc. It’s far and away the best race for this class and spec.

    Mundus: The Atronach – increased recovery for PVP is always a nice have. You can do the Apprentice or Shadow for more damage or if you are running TBS.

    Food: Tri stat purple – Get the best tri stat food you can.

    Potions: You’ll want to have access to – Magicka recovery, Stam Recovery, Health recovery. Now you can get that all in one, or take the cheap route and get 3 separate potions. You’ll want an immobility potion, a spell damage potion (you might not need this based on slot choices) and invisibility potion. All of them have a place in your quick slot use them.

    Attributes: this is a PVP build so you are going to want 20-25K health. Remember you get a +5K health buff for battle spirit when in cyrodiil, so factor that in. I always gear out and see where I sit then I reset attributes and adjust accordingly. I usually come in at 22K health and some change.

    CP: Blue- you want to get 5% into Atronach staff expert this will increase your LA and HA as you will need to weave when you can with staves. The rest of your blue points should go into Apprentice all 4 have value, this is going to amp up your damage so play around with this. I recommend going full into elemental damage as your attacks will be shock or magic based.

    CP: Green – 100 points to Arcanist in the lover branch, this will give you +25% magicka regen. Put enough points into Shadow tumbling to get 5% reduction to roll dodge and break free. You can forgo this as streak should provide you with your escape and the tri stat food should keep your stam pool high enough, your call. The rest goes to the magician in the tower branch to lower magi cost.

    CP: Red – 100 points to bastion in the lord tree. This might sound excessive but your primary defense in this build are shields. I spread the rest of the points between Hardy, Elemental Defender and Resistant. Tweak to preference.

    Jewels: Imperial City Will Power Set – The 3 piece bonus is still the best in slot from what I am seeing including one tamriel sets. To get arcane pieces is going to cost some coin or time. You can use pieces with healthy enchants (I do) if you want more survivability (and to save some money) ideally you have all arcane all spell damage enchants on the pieces.

    Armor Sets: Going to do more narrative here. This is a Destro/Resto or DW/Resto build with no maelstrom weapons. This build uses crafted sets. You are not limited to crafted sets drops will work fine but I hit like a dam truck with this set up. Seducers is still an exceptional set that provides everything but spell damage. Julianos is an offensive set that will bump your crit and give you spell damage. Kagernac, I think is the best of the three and perhaps the best crafted set for magi DPS. The 5<sup>th</sup> bonus actually has three bonuses’, Spell damage, Magicka return and decrease time on resurrection of an ally.

    The next set is going to be 2 body pieces and weapons. So many options here it’s really hard to nail down one best in slot. Torugs is nice fit here to bump spell damage and health particularly if you went all arcane on your jewels. Seducers for more regen or any number of drops you get from just playing. Shadow Dancer comes to mind, so does Transmutation or Vicious death. Vicious death is a potent set and if you pvp a lot you likely have several pieces of it. You can certainly use it as the 5 piece base. Magnus set gives me the best bang for the buck though, I have to make up health elsewhere but overall it’s a great 3-4 piece bonus.

    Option 1: This is the two stave build resto/destro.

    4 Kagernac body magicka enchant all impen.

    Kagernac Destro – Sharpened with Glyph of Damage (the one that increases spell and weapon damage)

    Kagernac Resto – Defending with Glyph of hardening (gives a damage shield, will stack)

    3 body pieces Magnus– 1 impen, 2 divines

    Option 2: This is the DW/Resto

    5 Kagnernac body pieces – All impen

    2 Magnus body pieces divines

    2 Magnus 1H sword – Sharpened with Glyph of Damage (the one that increases spell and weapon damage)

    1 Magnus Resto stave- Defending with Glyph of hardening (gives a damage shield, will stack)

    ONE TAMRIEL UPDATE: So I looked at the new sets dropping, some interesting sets out there that buff specific skill line (destro staff damage as an example). I’m not a min maxer, but my builds are usually within the 90% – 95% of top end (it’s really not that hard, lol). Spinners Garments from Malabal Tor looks like a dam good option. I’m not going to profess to have tested the 4K spell penetration bonus, I haven’t. Vampires lord looks interesting too because it lowers vamp skill costs so bats could be very cheap. I still think Kagernac is going to hold up well to the new sets, and TBS is still there to get if you can craft them.

    Option 1 gear set – skills

    Bar 1 Destro:

    1. Destructive reach or Crushing Shock: I really like the knock back on reach….
    2. Curse: Keep it on them
    3. Crystal Frags: Main skill, it’s also a CC.
    4. Mages wrath: execute skill
    5. Flex: Inner light (mages guild) is good here. You get max magicka for having it slotted additional crit and you get the might of the guild mages guild passive. (when you use the skill). I’ve slotted power surge here too.
    6. Ultimate: Shooting Star, Vamp Bats, Atronach ( I use shooting star)

    Bar 2 Resto:

    1. Streak
    2. Harness Magicka
    3. Healing ward
    4. Hardened ward
    5. Flex: If you went inner light on destro this is a good spot for power surge. If you are getting major sorcery from a potion fine, this would be a good spot for daedric mines, dark conversion, or defensive rune. I like Power Surge because I get 2 benefits, major sorcery and crits give me a heal.
    6. One of the 3 not on your destro bar (I use bats for the vamp passives)

    Option 2 gear set – skills

    Bar 1 DW:

    1. Inevitable Detonation/Daedric Mines/flex. The goal is to get ID, this is a curse skill you put on a single target that results in an AOE explosion. Its deep into the alliance war line so it will take time to get
    2. Curse: Keep it on them
    3. Crystal Frags: Main skill, it’s also a CC.
    4. Mages wrath: execute skill
    5. Flex: Inner light (mages guild) is good here. You get max magicka for having it slotted additional crit and you get the might of the guild mages guild passive. (When you use the skill). I’ve slotted power surge here too.
    6. Ultimate: Shooting Star, Vamp Bats, Atronach ( I use shooting star)

    Bar 2 Resto:

    1. Streak
    2. Harness Magicka
    3. Healing ward
    4. Hardened ward
    5. Flex: If you went inner light on DW this is a good spot for power surge. If you are getting major sorcery from a potion fine, this would be a good spot for daedric mines, dark conversion, or defensive rune. I like Power Surge because I get 2 benefits, major sorcery and crits give me a heal.
    6. One of the 3 not on your destro bar (I use bats for the vamp passives)

    You notice not much is changing between the two variants. You are going to get more spell power from the two swords due to the set bonus. That’s pretty much the main reason for the variant. Go ahead and build both sets they are crafted and test for yourself. I’ve done spectacular damage with each.

     

    Stats:

    Pic 1 – Buffed

    Pic 1 notes: (DW variant)

    1. Spell damage at 3300 and Regen at 2K – This is pretty dam solid IMHO. I’ve seen much higher spell damage builds and sustain build but this combo will serve you well in cyrodiil.
    2. Spell Crit: we are deficient here, you want to see this over 50% if you can but that’s the price for 2K regen, unless you use potions. However this is with inner light slotted which gives you major prophecy. You can bump this with your CP allocation but you’ll be pulling points from spell penetration most likely.
    3. Resistances: pretty low and it’s an issue. However the pic below is the solution

    Pic2 – Shields

    1. As you can see from the pic on a 22K health build I have a 21K shield (that’s in cyrodiil with the penalty). This comes from my 100 point investment into bastion and this is without the shield from the hardening glyph on the resto staff which would make the total shield more than my total health.
    2. That’s how you are going to survive in Cyrodiil, ya it’s a standard shield stack, but it works.

     

     5 Misc. Items:  

    1. Why no overload for the 3<sup>rd</sup> bar? I solo/leech a lot in cyrodiil, it’s RARE to get a 1v1 or even a 2v1 unless it’s organized beforehand. Normally you are being zerged or zergging. I’ve played with the overload 3<sup>rd</sup> bar and it works but it’s more than I want to manage. My front bar is a DPS horse I don’t need more than that, so overload would need to give me something I can’t get from the other two bars. So far I haven’t found anything I can’t live without, the 12 skills I have work.
    2. Why Vamp: You can skip this if you want. Vampire has some nice passives for regen and damage reduction and the ultimate is pretty solid. It’s a great back bar option as that’s your defense and survival bar. You do have issues with fire and DK’s can be a major pain in the ass. If they drop a standard get the hell out of there as quick as you can. You’re also going to have to stay out of siege damage as that can one shot you if your shields aren’t up.
    3. Shields and you: Harness magicka will not pull you out of stealth. Healing ward will heal you, that and heals from crits if you have power surge up are your only heals. Keep your shields up, otherwise you’ll be rolled fast. Shields, streak away create distance DPS rotation, shields. Practice always having your shields up, make it a habit of casting and recasting over and over.
    4. This is a PVP build, I don’t really do PVE anymore. The back bar is heavy shields and you wouldn’t really be giving your PVE group much beyond good DPS. Certainly you can put other skills on the bar to provide more utility in PVE but the 100 points to Bastion can get expensive resetting over and over. A high level trial group is probably going to expect a different spread from you. If you do want to PVE dailies without changing things up, slap restoring springs from the resto line on the back bar. You should be able to get through most pugs on silver with this and your ward.
    5. Why no 5-1-1 for the undaunted passive? You can do that, I haven’t ground out the undaunted on this toon. I like 7 light my regen is better (particularly with harness). I’ve done no hard math on this, if I had the undaunted leveled I would do the 5-1-1.

    Playing the toon: There are 3 rules I follow with this build, when in doubt I defer to them.

    1. Cast shields! Even if you have to spam them, if you do nothing else have your shields up.
    2. Don’t spam streak! 3-4 spams are about it before you really gimp your magi pool. Sometimes you have to get out of there fine. Get an add-on that tells you how long the penalty is running for, it really helps. If you’re on console you’ll know.
    3. Buffs! Keep calm and make sure you are using your buffs. Empower (cast mages light before frags!), major sorcery, crystal frags instant cast.

    Thanks for the read!

    • This topic was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Malic Malic.
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    Psiberzerker

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    Orc Nightblade

    Just a question: What do you think about a Frost Backbar, on the assumptions that only Nords really resist it, and they’re not all that popular for that, and similar reasons?  Because an Altmer Sorcerer is one of 2 (The other being Dragonight) that can do bonus damage in 3 elements, it’s just that one has consistantly and tranditionally a bad choice all around (Unless I missed that patch when Ice Staff ruled?)  Vs the fact that Sorcerer actually makes Lightning Staff (Or DK Inferno Staff even moreso) in the general PvP environment I haven’t even begun to catch up on.

    {Still having a lot of fun running Scout missions with the fastest character I can possibly build}

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    Malic

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    Imperial Nightblade

    On the back bar for this build the element isnt important, you can make the resto anything you want really.

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    mrowmrif2

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Hey test out impenetrable gear – my last test indicated it does not affect magic crits… so crit damage could be very nice.  (Thief, julianos, etc)

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    Malic

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    Total Posts: 741

    Imperial Nightblade

    mrowmrif2 said on October 10, 2016 :

    Hey test out impenetrable gear – my last test indicated it does not affect magic crits… so crit damage could be very nice. (Thief, julianos, etc)

    Impen for the crit defense.

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    mrowmrif2

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Yes but it was not protecting from spell crit, only weapon crit, when i tested it – is what i mean.  Tested bow light attacks, destro light attacks, funnel health skill… vs bow attacks impen gear acted as expected and reduced crit damage (not rate); vs staff attacks and funnel impen did nothing at all.  The cp passive “resistant” did, however, work against both physical and magical attacks to reduce crit damage (again, not rate).

    i would be happy to test with you at some point in game – sharing bad info is not my intention, and they might have fixed it since my test…

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    Malic

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    Imperial Nightblade

    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    Yes but it was not protecting from spell crit, only weapon crit, when i testedit – is what i mean. Tested bow light attacks, destro light attacks, funnel health skill… vs bow attacks impen gear acted as expected and reduced crit damage (not rate); vs staff attacks and funnel impen did nothing at all. The cp passive “resistant” did, however, work against both physicaland magical attacks to reduce crit damage (again, not rate).

    i would be happy to test with you at somepoint in game – sharing bad info is not my intention, and they might have fixed it since my test…

    Okay, had to answer quick last night. If your tests are accurate then its bugged. Impen should be providing increase critical resistance the source of the crit shouldnt factor in. Unless I have read the tool tip wrong, wouldnt be the first but I am pretty sure I have the trait description right. Im going to go ahead and assume you are correct though. Thats a major bug, or the tool tip is incorrect. ZOS would need to change the tip, fix the bug or create another trait that decreases spell crit.

    As this is a light armor build the gear has to provide defense via traits, even with CP its pretty flimsy and thats with the shield stack on the back bar. I dont get over to the official forums, have you seen this issue mentioned there?

    As you know I dont really test, I just play in cyrodiil and Im not noticing any abnormal damage spikes from hits spell vs phys.

     

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    mrowmrif2

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Yeah i hate taking time out to test anything myself too… my buddy had asked me to do it because he was about to have me make a new cp160 set of gear for him and wanted to make sure it actually worked as intended (nope!) before wasting the mats… and this was like 6 months ago, so it certainly might have been fixed… but i saw no buzz or patch notes about it, and that is kind of a big deal right?

    However… with all the stam sorcs and stamblades out there, impen only helping mit physical crit damage isnt that bad of an idea.  And sorcs using shields get 100% crit resistance anyway.

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    Psiberzerker

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    Orc Nightblade

    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    And sorcs using shields get 100% crit resistance anyway.

    You mean 1H&S or Shield spells like Hardened Ward?  I’m not seeing this +100% crit resistance either way.  Would you mind detailing how that works?  Bcause I’d sure like to see that on my Character tab.  (Also, is it +100% or Immunity?)

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    mrowmrif2

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    Psiberzerker said on October 11, 2016 :

    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    And sorcs using shields get 100% crit resistance anyway.

    You mean 1H&S or Shield spells like Hardened Ward? I’m not seeing this +100% crit resistance either way. Would you mind detailing how that works? Bcause I’d sure like to see that on my Character tab. (Also, is it +100% or Immunity?)

    Shield spells of any type – you cannot crit a bubble :)  so in the damage calculation it goes:

    damage reduction (cp passives, vamp passive, etc.) > bubble > resistances/blocking

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    Psiberzerker

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    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    Shield spells of any type – you cannot crit a bubble so in the damage calculation it goes:

    damage reduction (cp passives, vamp passive, etc.) > bubble > resistances/blocking

    That’s awesome, and really fits in with both of my main builds (Tank with Shielded Charge, and Medium DPS with Brawler.  Incidentally, those work, right?  You said any shield, it doesn’t have to be Hardened Ward?)  I don’t really like Impen as a trait, because there’s so much better ones like Reinforced/Defending, and Divines.  I rarely even research it, unless I’m scrabbling for Traits to qualify for crafted sets like 2BS.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Psiberzerker Psiberzerker.

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    mrowmrif2

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    Psiberzerker said on October 11, 2016 :

    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    Shield spells of any type – you cannot crit a bubble so in the damage calculation it goes:

    damage reduction (cp passives, vamp passive, etc.) > bubble > resistances/blocking

    That’s awesome, and really fits in with both of my main builds (Tank with Shielded Charge, and Medium DPS with Brawler. Incidentally, those work, right? You said any shield, it doesn’t have to be Hardened Ward?)

    Correct; one of the reasons i love igneous shield in pvp on my dk – shields suck, but even a tiny shield prevents a crit.

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    Psiberzerker

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    mrowmrif2 said on October 11, 2016 :

    Correct; one of the reasons i love igneous shield in pvp on my dk – shields suck, but even a tiny shield prevents a crit.

    Shields alone suck, since they patched the shield stack meta, which I hated anyway.  I have good results with Brawler, in the situations it really shines (All PvE, though.)  On top of Bound Aegis, and usually Hurricane.  By itself it’s not enough, on the off-chance that you get critted, but in a PvP meta where everyone’s doing Crit stacks instead of Penetration, it makes sense with this new information.  Definitely better than crafting up 7x Impen instead of better traits.

    The main problem I’m having with both my shields in PvP is I have to close, and activate them in a Melee.  Doesn’t always happen in Cyrodiil, if they have a lot of Mages/Archers, but does in Duels.  Since I just have to charge 1 guy, which I do.  Then, Range isn’t really an issue.  In retrospect, the Crit heavy meta and using Brawled/Shielded charge might just explain a lot of my duels.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Psiberzerker Psiberzerker.

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    Malic

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    The account I was using to post the pics is no more. I will get them back up soon.

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    Psiberzerker

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    Also, as I hadn’t mentioned it before, I really like the simplified easily digestible formatting of this build.  Not really interested in yet another staff-sorc, but very few questions raised due to lack of clarity.  So, +1 just for that.

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    Malic

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    Imperial Nightblade

    Psiberzerker said on October 11, 2016 :

    Also, as I hadn’t mentioned it before, I really like the simplified easily digestible formatting of this build. Not really interested in yet another staff-sorc, but very few questions raised due to lack of clarity. So, +1 just for that.

    the sorc is an alt of mine and the only toon I will remotely grind on is my stamplar now (my oldest toon). This build is designed to get you out there and be competitive with crafted gear. Its pretty straight forward, minimally I would say the back bar alone should allow any non PVP regular the ability to stay in the fight and get some pops in. The more skilled PvP players are going to be able to time their rotations with streak CC, bubbles and DPS. Thats really the trick with a magi sorc in cyrodiil IMHO perfecting the rotation. This build is by no means complex anyone could have drawn it up with just a little XP.

    One of the problems with min/max builds is players spend hours upon hours extracting every last stat and output out of the toon. For trials and serious dungeon crawls ya you need to do that. In cyrodiil its completely different you actually dont need to have the top output, you need to know how to play the toon and what it can and cant do and when you should do it. Ani cancelling, weaving, using the topography and movement are extremely important.

    You can have a lesser build and take down people with stats maxed out if you know what you are doing I see it all the time in cyrodiil.

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    Psiberzerker

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    There are a lot a lot of Casuals in Cyrodiil.  Even the veteran campaigns, so i definitely see your point, and the need you’re satisfying with this.  I just did it with Stamina instead, but in many ways it’s the same build with the same intent (And a lot more mobility.)

    The main reason i suggest Sorcerer for this (Fast and dirty rush to Cyrodiil) is Overload.  So, you don’t have to wait for level 15 to dive right in, and…  Get killed a lot.  Okay, it’s also basically a big fat “Shoot me!” sign that glows in the dark, but you can at least bring 10 active skills to the fight instead of just swinging away with a greatsword while they burn you down in an average of 2 seconds with a Destruction Staff.  that’s what’s been happening to me.  2 seconds.  “Bye Flelicia!” run back from the closest friendly Transitus shrune.  Even with a Magic Tank, with just staff attack, and Crushing Shock, apparently spammed with total Animation Cancellation.  No idea HTF they do it.

    • This reply was modified 5 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Psiberzerker Psiberzerker.

    Everything above is likely Opinion, and/or subject to change. 

    I mostly play ”Gofasta” Orcish berserkers in Red armor.  (Alluding to WH40K.)

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    SilentSlugz

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    mrowmrif2

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    Try (img)link(/img)

    but replace ( ) with [ ]

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    Malic

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    Psiberzerker said on October 11, 2016 :

    There are a lot a lot of Casuals in Cyrodiil. Even the veteran campaigns, so i definitely see your point, and the need you’re satisfying with this. I just did it with Stamina instead, but in many ways it’s the same build with the same intent (And a lot more mobility.)

    The main reason i suggest Sorcerer for this (Fast and dirty rush to Cyrodiil) is Overload. So, you don’t have to wait for level 15 to dive right in, and… Get killed a lot. Okay, it’s also basically a big fat “Shoot me!” sign that glows in the dark, but you can at least bring 10 active skills to the fight instead of just swinging away with a greatsword while they burn you down in an average of 2 seconds with a Destruction Staff. that’s what’s been happening to me. 2 seconds. “Bye Flelicia!” run back from the closest friendly Transitus shrune. Even with a Magic Tank, with just staff attack, and Crushing Shock, apparently spammed with total Animation Cancellation. No idea HTF they do it.

    On animation canceling right mouse (or hot key) block, thats how I do my animation cancelling. ani cancelling is IMHO an advanced technique for cyrodiil, its not hard to pull off but its hard to master in a dps rotation in PVP.

     

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