Stamina Nightblade PvE DPS For Homestead

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    bodidharma99 said on May 18, 2017 :

    do u use infuse on axe and sharp on dagger? and which weapon goes in main hand and which as the poison glyph and which has the weapon damage glyph?

    Doesn’t matter on which weapon you use Infused as long as its on the main hand. The Poison Glyph should be Infused (aka main hand). The Weap Dmg glyph on the off-hand. :)

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    bodidharma99

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    so axe infused poison and dagger sharp weapon damage

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    Jeckll

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    bodidharma99 said on May 18, 2017 :

    do u use infuse on axe and sharp on dagger? and which weapon goes in main hand and which as the poison glyph and which has the weapon damage glyph?

    I use an infused axe on the main hand. You need to use infused on the main hand, and the axe because of the higher chance to procc the bleed (Surprise Attack).

     

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    The main reason I dislike Rend is that I have to give up 8% weapon damage for it. And Ballista does more damage in ST and Shooting Star does more damage in AoE and Incap helpsthe most with sustain.

    You cant hope to hit anything for the full duration with Shooting Star in vHoF and Ballista … yeah it works but the cost is too high and its basically the same DPS as Rend but Rend gets the execute bonus of DW plus it heals. Sure, the big thing was the scaling with vMA weapons but no matter what ulti combo I used, the difference was really minor.

    The thing I dislike about Incap on bow is how clunky it is to have all dots running and then use it. For example you want to bar swap with Poison Injection to make sure the Dots gets buffed by the additonal weapon damage from the DW bar…but you also want a maximum “spam time” with incap buff up plus you also want the damage of incap to scale with your DW bar…so you want to bar swap 2 skills really. Either get a clunky rotation or eat the fact that 1 of those skills is not used to maximum potential.

    I dont get the sustain argument really. You basically save 1 skill cost every ~45s maybe compared to Rend for example. I dont feel a difference.

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Jeckll said on May 18, 2017 :

    bodidharma99 said on May 18, 2017 :

    do u use infuse on axe and sharp on dagger? and which weapon goes in main hand and which as the poison glyph and which has the weapon damage glyph?

    I use an infused axe on the main hand. You need to use infused on the main hand, and the axe because of the higher chance to procc the bleed (Surprise Attack).

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    The main reason I dislike Rend is that I have to give up 8% weapon damage for it. And Ballista does more damage in ST and Shooting Star does more damage in AoE and Incap helpsthe most with sustain.

    You cant hope to hit anything for the full duration with Shooting Star in vHoF and Ballista … yeah it works but the cost is too high and its basically the same DPS as Rend but Rend gets the execute bonus of DW plus it heals. Sure, the big thing was the scaling with vMA weapons but no matter what ulti combo I used, the difference was really minor.

    The thing I dislike about Incap on bow is how clunky it is to have all dots running and then use it. For example you want to bar swap with Poison Injection to make sure the Dots gets buffed by the additonal weapon damage from the DW bar…but you also want a maximum “spam time” with incap buff up plus you also want the damage of incap to scale with your DW bar…so you want to bar swap 2 skills really. Either get a clunky rotation or eat the fact that 1 of those skills is not used to maximum potential.

    I dont get the sustain argument really. You basically save 1 skill cost every ~45s maybe compared to Rend for example. I dont feel a difference.

    Does the Axe on main hand really give you a higher bleed proc chance though? Its still 8% no matter in which hand you have it I think, no?

    Well, when you don’t use a potion or Leeching Strikes, Incap takes 24 seconds to build up. Whenever, you use a potion, it takes 19 seconds. So that’s 1 skill cost every 20 seconds on average, so you’re saving about 2k stamina every 20 seconds, so 100 less stamina used during the course of a fight. I actually really feel the difference when switching to a different ult, like Shooting Star, Ballista or Rend.

    I used to run Incap on the front bar and Flawless DB on bow bar when I wasn’t using Leeching Strikes (when HAs were the only option). Since you spend about 4-5 sec on the bow bar, Flawless helps diminish the DPS loss while applying your DoTs.

    Well, Ballista is currently bugged and doesn’t scale with Thaumaturge or Master-At-Arms and when I tested it, it still did consistently more DPS than Rend for me (around 4k). Mainly because of Hawk Eye, which is basically a straight up 25% damage boost and since Ballista is used after all DoTs are applied on the Bow bar, the Hawk Eye passive is fully amped up for basically the whole of the duration of the channel. I currently have 44 points into Thaum, so with that bonus, Ballista would be doing obscene damage, it would be dealing WAY more damage than Rend. And I mean in vHoF, if Shooting Star doesn’t run its full duration, Rend won’t either because it lasts even longer :P

    Shooting Star is actually stronger for stamina builds this patch than before due to the reduction of Ele Expert to 15% max. So in the end you’re only losing about 10% damage compared to Magicka builds and 4-7% extra depending on race. But Stamina builds have higher base stats, so that kinda evens out in the end imho (still less DPS than on a magicka build, but not as much as last patch). But on a Nightblade you obviously get the benefit of the added ultimate generation. But I agree that in vHoF there isn’t much point in using it, because there just isn’t enough AoE and in most fights the DPS windows are too short or too mobile.

    I agree on the clunkiness of timing the Incap, but I’m sure that we’ll figure that out soon. After all, it is a “mini-standard-of-might” and it does hit like a truck itself.

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    bodidharma99

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    i manage to do 37.7k dps with hunding infuse axe setup on live server using 2 heavy attack each rotation. Do you know if i ll do better dps on morrowind or less?

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    Jeckll

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    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    Does the Axe on main hand really give you a higher bleed proc chance though? Its still 8% no matter in which hand you have it I think, no?

    Brain fart, you are right :) My bad, thanks.

     

     

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    I used to run Incap on the front bar and Flawless DB on bow bar when I wasn’t using Leeching Strikes (when HAs were the only option). Since you spend about 4-5 sec on the bow bar, Flawless helps diminish the DPS loss while applying your DoTs.

    Well, Ballista is currently bugged and doesn’t scale with Thaumaturge or Master-At-Arms and when I tested it, it still did consistently more DPS than Rend for me (around 4k). Mainly because of Hawk Eye, which is basically a straight up 25% damage boost and since Ballista is used after all DoTs are applied on the Bow bar, the Hawk Eye passive is fully amped up for basically the whole of the duration of the channel. I currently have 44 points into Thaum, so with that bonus, Ballista would be doing obscene damage, it would be dealing WAY more damage than Rend. And I mean in vHoF, if Shooting Star doesn’t run its full duration, Rend won’t either because it lasts even longer

    Shooting Star is actually stronger for stamina builds this patch than before due to the reduction of Ele Expert to 15% max. So in the end you’re only losing about 10% damage compared to Magicka builds and 4-7% extra depending on race. But Stamina builds have higher base stats, so that kinda evens out in the end imho (still less DPS than on a magicka build, but not as much as last patch). But on a Nightblade you obviously get the benefit of the added ultimate generation. But I agree that in vHoF there isn’t much point in using it, because there just isn’t enough AoE and in most fights the DPS windows are too short or too mobile.

    I agree on the clunkiness of timing the Incap, but I’m sure that we’ll figure that out soon. After all, it is a “mini-standard-of-might” and it does hit like a truck itself.

    I played a few rounds with Incap on mainbar and Flawless  on bow which gave me a very consistant 43k+. Main issue was that i was running dry faster because I tried to spam LA-SA as much as possible after Incap. But thats easily fixable. I think I will try to use this for a while because when I think about the “end goal” with War mashine dual wield, I will use Incap on DW bar anyways.

    The issue with Shooting Star is that mobs are not stationary in vHOF most of the time and I cant think of situations where you can hit 2 targets reliably with Shooting Star while there are situations where adds are running cross the boss where I use rend. I dont get your argument with Shooting Star being better because of CP. Maybe the difference between using it as a Magicka user and a Stam user is not as huge anymore but i doubt it. So they get 10% less from ele expert but they still specc into Spell Errosion or Elfborn – even more than before actually. Shooting Star doesnt benefit from Piercing or Precise Strikes. I will do a direct comparison soon to make sure we’re all using the best possible ulti.

    If Ballista gets fixed on live, I will check again. That one was always solid but just so expensive. I think im too focused on vHof atm and surviving there. That’s why I stick to Rend the way I do mainly.

     

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    Well, when you don’t use a potion or Leeching Strikes, Incap takes 24 seconds to build up. Whenever, you use a potion, it takes 19 seconds. So that’s 1 skill cost every 20 seconds on average, so you’re saving about 2k stamina every 20 seconds, so 100 less stamina used during the course of a fight. I actually really feel the difference when switching to a different ult, like Shooting Star, Ballista or Rend.

    Your calculation doesnt include the fact that I use an ulti as well. You just use it twice as much, so you are not saving a skill cost every 20s but every 40s as I said.

    You: 20s – 40s – 60s -80s
    Me: 40s – 80s

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Jeckll said on May 18, 2017 :

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    Does the Axe on main hand really give you a higher bleed proc chance though? Its still 8% no matter in which hand you have it I think, no?

    Brain fart, you are right My bad, thanks.

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    I used to run Incap on the front bar and Flawless DB on bow bar when I wasn’t using Leeching Strikes (when HAs were the only option). Since you spend about 4-5 sec on the bow bar, Flawless helps diminish the DPS loss while applying your DoTs.

    Well, Ballista is currently bugged and doesn’t scale with Thaumaturge or Master-At-Arms and when I tested it, it still did consistently more DPS than Rend for me (around 4k). Mainly because of Hawk Eye, which is basically a straight up 25% damage boost and since Ballista is used after all DoTs are applied on the Bow bar, the Hawk Eye passive is fully amped up for basically the whole of the duration of the channel. I currently have 44 points into Thaum, so with that bonus, Ballista would be doing obscene damage, it would be dealing WAY more damage than Rend. And I mean in vHoF, if Shooting Star doesn’t run its full duration, Rend won’t either because it lasts even longer

    Shooting Star is actually stronger for stamina builds this patch than before due to the reduction of Ele Expert to 15% max. So in the end you’re only losing about 10% damage compared to Magicka builds and 4-7% extra depending on race. But Stamina builds have higher base stats, so that kinda evens out in the end imho (still less DPS than on a magicka build, but not as much as last patch). But on a Nightblade you obviously get the benefit of the added ultimate generation. But I agree that in vHoF there isn’t much point in using it, because there just isn’t enough AoE and in most fights the DPS windows are too short or too mobile.

    I agree on the clunkiness of timing the Incap, but I’m sure that we’ll figure that out soon. After all, it is a “mini-standard-of-might” and it does hit like a truck itself.

    I played a few rounds with Incap on mainbar and Flawless on bow which gave me a very consistant 43k+. Main issue was that i was running dry faster because I tried to spam LA-SA as much as possible after Incap. But thats easily fixable. I think I will try to use this for a while because when I think about the “end goal” with War mashine dual wield, I will use Incap on DW bar anyways.

    The issue with Shooting Star is that mobs are not stationary in vHOF most of the time and I cant think of situations where you can hit 2 targets reliably with Shooting Star while there are situations where adds are running cross the boss where I use rend. I dont get your argument with Shooting Star being better because of CP. Maybe the difference between using it as a Magicka user and a Stam user is not as huge anymore but i doubt it. So they get 10% less from ele expert but they still specc into Spell Errosion or Elfborn – even more than before actually. Shooting Star doesnt benefit from Piercing or Precise Strikes. I will do a direct comparison soon to make sure we’re all using the best possible ulti.

    If Ballista gets fixed on live, I will check again. That one was always solid but just so expensive. I think im too focused on vHof atm and surviving there. That’s why I stick to Rend the way I do mainly.

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 18, 2017 :

    Well, when you don’t use a potion or Leeching Strikes, Incap takes 24 seconds to build up. Whenever, you use a potion, it takes 19 seconds. So that’s 1 skill cost every 20 seconds on average, so you’re saving about 2k stamina every 20 seconds, so 100 less stamina used during the course of a fight. I actually really feel the difference when switching to a different ult, like Shooting Star, Ballista or Rend.

    Your calculation doesnt include the fact that I use an ulti as well. You just use it twice as much, so you are not saving a skill cost every 20s but every 40s as I said.

    You: 20s – 40s – 60s -80s
    Me: 40s – 80s

    You actually scared me there, I thought I was going to have to re craft and re create templates for the glyphs, because I hate the look of having the Axe main hand and thus had an Infused Dagger, so when you said that Axe main hand was making a difference, I freaked out :P

    Yeah I actually switched back to the Incap main bar and instantly started getting better results more consistenty :D The only issue I have is that the Hemorrhage passive isn’t active on the bow bar… The closest I’ve come to 44k is 43.8k and after I tried a few more times, I just decided to stop because forcing it is kinda useless and will only lead to frustration. But yeah, Incap really belongs on the front bar. The burst of 46k+ when Incap is active is so priceless to see on the CMX live feed :D Also, viewed that way, I am indeed only saving a skill cost every 40 sec. I still always have the impression of better sustain with Incap for some reason though… :o

    Hmm… I thought that Shooting Star scaled off all max stats including Weapon Crit Hit Damage and Physical Pen… So yeah, then you’re right indeed the gap between the efficiency of Shooting Star on Magicka and Stamina builds stays the same. But I think that with War Machine, Shooting Star > Incap is going to be a pretty priceless combo in trash pulls. And in boss fights, well, open up with Ballista and the rest is all Incap I guess.

    By the way, last time I checked (a week ago), Endless Hail and Caltrops tooltips were both buffed by Master-At-Arms. But I think that they are actually buffed by Thaumaturge like intended. I haven’t checked since, but there’s something really strange going on there ^^ The whole new CP system is a great change, but its so screwed up between the jump points in every tree and the weird scaling of certain skills.

     

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    Jeckll

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    I tested all skills now in our rotation and how the interact with cp. Everything is fine and scales with the correct Star. Except the Initial Hit of rearming trap which seems to scale with thaumaturge. Also since the “increased Damage Done” Is now additive to the Cp Stars, there Could be some Confusion. But all works fine.

    Except the System discards Every Decimal now. So 15.1% and 15.9% both give you 15%.

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    Soulflame

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    Jeckll said on May 19, 2017 :

    I tested all skills now in our rotation and how the interact with cp. Everything is fine and scales with the correct Star. Except the Initial Hit of rearming trap which seems to scale with thaumaturge. Also since the “increased Damage Done” Is now additive to the Cp Stars, there Could be some Confusion. But all works fine.

    Except the System discards Every Decimal now. So 15.1% and 15.9% both give you 15%.

    Interesting, could be pretty misleading for players who don’t know that though, and make them waste a few Champion Points.

    So with 5x War Machine, 5x Twice-Fanged Serpent, 2x Krag’h I’m getting 32kish, which is way too low. Maybe if I post my combat metrics you can spot if I’m missing some sort of important buff or something…? I just can’t think of what would lead to a 10k DPS reduction. I am using precise weapons (best I can get with the template) though.

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    Jeckll

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    @Soulflame I see quite some issues there.

    Poison injection uptime should be around 80%, minor Berserk 95% or more. You seem to skip blade cloak entirely after using it once? Major Fracture should also be way higher considering how much total dps it did for you. Aim for > 80% here.

    55% hawk eye and the low poison injection uptime leads me to think you are not reapplying bow dots in time. The dps of endless hail also indicates that.

    Might be some more things like cp as well but those are the things I saw on the fly.

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    Soulflame

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    Jeckll said on May 20, 2017 :

    @Soulflame I see quite some issues there.

    Poison injection uptime should be around 80%, minor Berserk 95% or more. You seem to skip blade cloak entirely after using it once? Major Fracture should also be way higher considering how much total dps it did for you. Aim for > 80% here.

    55% hawk eye and the low poison injection uptime leads me to think you are not reapplying bow dots in time. The dps of endless hail also indicates that.

    Might be some more things like cp as well but those are the things I saw on the fly.

    Thanks for the response! The weird thing is that I’m certain that Major Fracture is up all the time, so IDK why it says I have such low uptime. I’ll try swapping bars to bow a little earlier I guess, and I’ll not be lazy and keep Blade Cloak up. However, I don’t think this will account for 10k DPS.

     

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Soulflame said on May 20, 2017 :

    Jeckll said on May 20, 2017 :

    @Soulflame I see quite some issues there.

    Poison injection uptime should be around 80%, minor Berserk 95% or more. You seem to skip blade cloak entirely after using it once? Major Fracture should also be way higher considering how much total dps it did for you. Aim for > 80% here.

    55% hawk eye and the low poison injection uptime leads me to think you are not reapplying bow dots in time. The dps of endless hail also indicates that.

    Might be some more things like cp as well but those are the things I saw on the fly.

    Thanks for the response! The weird thing is that I’m certain that Major Fracture is up all the time, so IDK why it says I have such low uptime. I’ll try swapping bars to bow a little earlier I guess, and I’ll not be lazy and keep Blade Cloak up. However, I don’t think this will account for 10k DPS.

    As a general rule I personally like to think that the rotation lasts 11 seconds (basically the Endless Hail duration). What that means is that after applying Endless Hail you have 9 skill casts. In a perfect world, it would be 10, but due to the slower execution times and the terrible ping, 9 is a pretty safe number. So basically my “rota” looks like this:

    Starting with Deadly Cloak, Relentless Focus and Leeching Strikes active:

    1. Trap > Hail > Caltrops > Injection > Rending Slashes > Incap > Assassin’s Scourge > Surprise Attack x3

    2. Trap > Hail > Caltrops > Injection > Assassin’s Scourge > Deadly Cloak > Rending Slashes > Heavy Attack > SA > Relentless Focus

    Now this is a very rough guideline. You’re going to notice that whenever you use Incap you will need to go HAM. Made sure all DoTs are up before doing Incap. Whenever you apply Leeching Strikes, you do one less SA in the rotation.

    You can pretty safely predict that Incap will be up every 2nd rotation, so just I just include it in my cycle. I kind of view the 2 steps of the rotation as the full damage burst part (1) and the re-buff and recover resources part (2) and for the most part, it works out really well. The 2nd part is very flexible, you look at your buffs and reapply them accordingly you do a heavy attack weave here and there, etc.

    Jeckll covered the important bits already with the DoT uptimes and buff uptimes etc, so I hope that this can help you a little get the picture of how i personally manage buffs and view the rotation :) Then again, you don’t have to do it the way I do it at all, just figure out what works best for you!

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    @Jeckll I DID IT!

    Stamina Nightblade ESO Morrowind PTS 44.2k DPS

    And the more I look at the parse the more I realise that it was actually pretty terrible :O

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    Jeckll

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    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 20, 2017 :

    @Jeckll I DID IT!

    And the more I look at the parse the more I realise that it was actually pretty terrible :O

    Congratz. :)
    Wanna have a new goal?

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Jeckll said on May 20, 2017 :

    IzakiBrotherSs said on May 20, 2017 :

    @Jeckll I DID IT!

    And the more I look at the parse the more I realise that it was actually pretty terrible :O

    Congratz.
    Wanna have a new goal?

    <iframe id=”imgur-embed-iframe-pub-a-mZX3d” class=”imgur-embed-iframe-pub imgur-embed-iframe-pub-a-mZX3d-true-540″ style=”height: 500px; width: 540px; margin: 10px 0px; padding: 0px;” src=”http://imgur.com/a/mZX3d/embed?pub=true&ref=http%3A%2F%2Ftamrielfoundry.com%2Ftopic%2Fstamina-nightblade-pve-dps-for-homestead%2Fpage%2F17%2F%23post-682062&w=540″ width=”300″ height=”150″ scrolling=”no” allowfullscreen=”allowfullscreen”></iframe>

    <script src=”//s.imgur.com/min/embed.js” async=”” charset=”utf-8″></script>

    Damn I was about to try to get to 45k and then I saw your parse! :D No Leeching Strikes?! :O How’d you do dat? I’m guessing that you’ve put a Assassination ability on the back bar for the Hemorrhage passive instead of Leeching Strikes and just did a few more heavy attacks (which would also explain the lower DPS from light attacks I guess)? How come your stam is lower than usual? :O

    But I’m really glad to see that stamblades are fine next patch. I mean, I think that 45k was basically the higher threshold with vMA weapons in Homestead according to Asayre’s simulation, so its great to see that we are indeed progressing this patch! Imagine on live without the crazy ping? Who knows, maybe 46-47k is doable! :D #HYPE

    Edit: Man, you scared me! :P I was sitting there trying to get to 45k almost broke my controller because I kept screwing up and only hitting 43k each time, then I take another look at your parse and see that the time in combat was 58 sec and that the total health was 2.6mil xD Not funny okay, I actually almost broke my controller, no more pranks plz!

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    Soulflame

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    Thanks for the response as well Izaki, might go over the rotation again… Weird thing just happened, though. I didn’t do anything differently and suddenly my Major Fracture went from about 40-50% to 84.2%. I’m starting to think my combat metrics is just bugged, though it still doesn’t explain the 10k DPS difference…

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Soulflame said on May 20, 2017 :

    Thanks for the response as well Izaki, might go over the rotation again… Weird thing just happened, though. I didn’t do anything differently and suddenly my Major Fracture went from about 40-50% to 84.2%. I’m starting to think my combat metrics is just bugged, though it still doesn’t explain the 10k DPS difference…

    Combat Metrics really seems bugged on debuff uptimes indeed… On my magicka sorc and magblade I keep getting 23% Major Breach uptime when I refresh Ele Drain every second rotation…

    The DPS difference is really just practice… I mean don’t think of it as a rotation, think of it as a guideline, but you have to be really flexible: know when something is down, rebuff it in time, prioritize certain buffs over others, etc. I think Jeckll can explain this better than me (because mainly he’s better than me :P) but also because he knows how to explain things and this guide just shows that :)

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    Jeckll

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    @IzakiBrotherSs I didn’t even realize. I did my 44k break after the raid yesterday and was hitting the Dummy for some skill testings and then I guess I tried another round. Sorry mate :) will post my 44k parse later. Also damn, why is my Stam so low. Have to check.

    I don’t use leeching and I’m not a vamp so yes, more heavy attacking. I don’t want to give up hemorrhage on the bow bar.

    Minor slayer should still be bugged on pts so it’s definitely possible to go 45k and higher.

    @soulflame does a video help?

     

    EDIT: Didnt have a Glove Enchant -.- Thats why my stam was lower. Also, without Glove Enchant:

     

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    Jeckll

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    @Soulflame

    I did a quick video before my son woke up. Basically ignore the execute :P Just wanted to give you a quick insight. Maybe it helps.

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Jeckll said on May 20, 2017 :

    @IzakiBrotherSs I didn’t even realize. I did my 44k break after the raid yesterday and was hitting the Dummy for some skill testings and then I guess I tried another round. Sorry mate will post my 44k parse later. Also damn, why is my Stam so low. Have to check.

    I don’t use leeching and I’m not a vamp so yes, more heavy attacking. I don’t want to give up hemorrhage on the bow bar.

    Minor slayer should still be bugged on pts so it’s definitely possible to go 45k and higher.

    @soulflame does a video help?

    EDIT: Didnt have a Glove Enchant -.- Thats why my stam was lower. Also, without Glove Enchant:

    #WhoNeedsAGloveEnchantAtAll? I’m thinking that I might have to get used to doing more heavy attacks… because like you said giving up Hemorrhage on the back bar kinda sucks and in a raid well… There is some extra stam support right, shards, Master Resto, if an offtank decides to run Sentinel of Rkugamz sustain will be easy mode, so I guess in those situation you could double bar Relentless. Gonna try to run without Leeching next, although I like my light attacks :P

    By the way I decided to mess around for a bit yesterday and made myself some of that Max Stam + Stam Rec food:

    Stamina Nightblade ESO Morrowind PTS 45.3k DPS

    Not a single heavy attack, something like 1.8k recovery and 11k health lol. But it was fun! :D

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