Stamina Nightblade PvE DPS For Homestead

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Gonna whip out that Vicious Ophidian 5 piece again I guess!.. There’s literally no sense of progression. And the new Caltrops sucks. It might be a DPS increase for AoE, but a big sustain nerf and nothing will change in ST. I’m actually thinking that the DPS will go down for ST due to the fact that it has to be applied 3 times in 30 seconds, which just totally overrides the 75% damage buff… Sad times.

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    ^ Also that new Leeching Strikes… THING… isn’t even worth slotting. Takes 6 light attacks to just refund the cost of the ability, which leaves 14 seconds of perfect weaving to actually restore something. The HoT is a crappy version of Crit Surge that has more restrictions and can’t crit (not to mention that the value of the heal itself is too low to be significant).

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    wizzo45

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    IzakiBrotherSs said on April 20, 2017 :

    ^ Also that new Leeching Strikes… THING… isn’t even worth slotting. Takes 6 light attacks to just refund the cost of the ability, which leaves 14 seconds of perfect weaving to actually restore something. The HoT is a crappy version of Crit Surge that has more restrictions and can’t crit (not to mention that the value of the heal itself is too low to be significant).

    To be fair… It could be super helpful when you’re strafing around a boss holding LMB because you don’t have any stamina to use actual abilities…

    (/s)

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    bodidharma99

    Journeyman

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    that shit should have stayed magicka…it was a perfect magicka dump

    gamertag: bodidharma99

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    Pijng

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    Dunmer Dragonknight

    To be honest, Jeckll, 5 VO parts wont give you that much stamina sustain. With the morro update stamina morphs will costs 15% cheaper than their magicka alternatives. But they were just like 20% cheaper. It means that with the 5xVO you will return everything as it was. What about stamina return from each kill – yeah, nice effect when you deal with trash, still cool on vMA, but lets face it – how much profit will it give on a boss fights? Close to nothing.

    And these new sipho attacks with less resource return and proc only from LA and HA. Then caltrops… Stamina builds are crap nowadays especially nb’s but with the upcoming patch…I dont know. 3 months ago I’ve made my stamblade to be a PvP’er only, and I’m totally happy. Sometimes thought about coming back to pve but hey, now it’s almost pointless. BP set, 5VO, no monster… A dps lost.

    Idk, maybe i’m wrong and things wont be so bad D:

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 6 hours ago by Profile photo of Pijng Pijng.
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    Jeckll

    Grandmaster

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    Redguard Nightblade

    Jianji

    Pijng said on April 20, 2017 :

    To be honest, Jeckll, 5 VO parts wont give you that much stamina sustain. With the morro update stamina morphs will costs 15% cheaper than their magicka alternatives. But they were just like 20% cheaper. It means that with the 5xVO you will return everything as it was. What about stamina return from each kill – yeah, nice effect when you deal with trash, still cool on vMA, but lets face it – how much profit will it give on a boss fights? Close to nothing.

    And these new sipho attacks with less resource return and proc only from LA and HA. Then caltrops… Stamina builds are crap nowadays especially nb’s but with the upcoming patch…I dont know. 3 months ago I’ve made my stamblade to be a PvP’er only, and I’m totally happy. Sometimes thought about coming back to pve but hey, now it’s almost pointless. BP set, 5VO, no monster… A dps lost.

    Idk, maybe i’m wrong and things wont be so bad D:

    It doesnt matter how much sustain or cost reduction you had, have or will have. The benefit of VO will always be the same. But relative to your total sustain, VO will have a higher value than it has now.

    A little adaptation to my rota already made it possible to kill the small target dummy so Im confident I will come up with a solid build in Morrowind. Sustain issues are not Stamina exclusive. All classes have to adept (while MagSorcs and DKs in general will have a very easy way to do so).

    Yes, Stamina still sucks in PvE – but it will most likely not be worse than it is already. I think there will be several changes on the PTS before Update 14 goes live so I will not care too much about the state atm, but lets face it: It looked grim for quite some time now for Stamina and Stamblades specifically. Its nothing new and we will most likely be able to overcome with outragous extra work, dedication and passion … or roll MagSorc (my raid lead would love that, trust me)

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    bodidharma99

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    will you fall into the dark side jeckll? lol

    gamertag: bodidharma99

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    LiquidPony

    Novice

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    Jeckll said on April 21, 2017 :

    Pijng said on April 20, 2017 :

    To be honest, Jeckll, 5 VO parts wont give you that much stamina sustain. With the morro update stamina morphs will costs 15% cheaper than their magicka alternatives. But they were just like 20% cheaper. It means that with the 5xVO you will return everything as it was. What about stamina return from each kill – yeah, nice effect when you deal with trash, still cool on vMA, but lets face it – how much profit will it give on a boss fights? Close to nothing.

    And these new sipho attacks with less resource return and proc only from LA and HA. Then caltrops… Stamina builds are crap nowadays especially nb’s but with the upcoming patch…I dont know. 3 months ago I’ve made my stamblade to be a PvP’er only, and I’m totally happy. Sometimes thought about coming back to pve but hey, now it’s almost pointless. BP set, 5VO, no monster… A dps lost.

    Idk, maybe i’m wrong and things wont be so bad D:

    It doesnt matter how much sustain or cost reduction you had, have or will have. The benefit of VO will always be the same. But relative to your total sustain, VO will have a higher value than it has now.

    A little adaptation to my rota already made it possible to kill the small target dummy so Im confident I will come up with a solid build in Morrowind. Sustain issues are not Stamina exclusive. All classes have to adept (while MagSorcs and DKs in general will have a very easy way to do so).

    Yes, Stamina still sucks in PvE – but it will most likely not be worse than it is already. I think there will be several changes on the PTS before Update 14 goes live so I will not care too much about the state atm, but lets face it: It looked grim for quite some time now for Stamina and Stamblades specifically. Its nothing new and we will most likely be able to overcome with outragous extra work, dedication and passion … or roll MagSorc (my raid lead would love that, trust me)

    So, maybe I’m totally off base, but the major issues I see with stam DPS in raids are: AoE DPS, survivability, and group utility.

    The Caltrops change should be a significant boost to AoE DPS.  The new Ironclad CP should buff survivability.  The new War Machine set should buff group utility, especially for stam NBs since we can run a cheap ulti and regenerate quickly.  And the new Infector set could also be a huge buff to stam AoE DPS (I’d be really interested to see if bringing Morag Tong back into raid groups on a stam DK would be beneficial there, too).

    In fact, the Master Architect and War Machine sets appear to me to be specifically targeted at Nightblade raiders.

    Everyone seems to think the sky is falling but I think there are some subtle changes in this patch that may go a long way towards bringing stam DPS and Nightblades back into the regular raid rotation.

    I have a magsorc and a magDK that I can use if my raid group ever gets sick of my stamblade, but I’m still running the stamblade on live and I’m guessing our lot in life will get at least a little bit better in Morrowind.  I don’t want to be some fairy wand toting coward hiding behind a shield.

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    Jeckll

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    Jianji

    @liquidpony Ironclad doesnt help Stam specifically. It’s for everyone. Magicka might need less shielding – > more dps.

    Caltrops will help a bit to increase aoe / cleave dps. Still cant beat magicka dps imho in terms of aoe.

    Not sure about new sets making any difference. Stam sets in general are already pretty damn good. We will have to see.

    Seeing how stamplar gets better sustain, dks heavy attack builds are already very powerful and being the best Single target dps and Stamsorcs are fine as well, I think Stamblade is the worst stamina choice atm in Morrowind.

    The sustain advantage of Stamblades is gone as they riped siphoning attacks, relentless focus is retundant thanks to combat prayer. The Last class skill left is killer’s blade. You can easily skip that as well.

    Mageblade also doesnt look too good imho.

    So yes, if everyone runs heavy attacks to sustain, stamina has an advantage. But all other classes outperform nb.

     

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    wizzo45

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    Jeckll said on April 21, 2017 :

    @liquidpony Ironclad doesnt help Stam specifically. It’s for everyone. Magicka might need less shielding – > more dps.

    Caltrops will help a bit to increase aoe / cleave dps. Still cant beat magicka dps imho in terms of aoe.

    Not sure about new sets making any difference. Stam sets in general are already pretty damn good. We will have to see.

    Seeing how stamplar gets better sustain, dks heavy attack builds are already very powerful and being the best Single target dps and Stamsorcs are fine as well, I think Stamblade is the worst stamina choice atm in Morrowind.

    The sustain advantage of Stamblades is gone as they riped siphoning attacks, relentless focus is retundant thanks to combat prayer. The Last class skill left is killer’s blade. You can easily skip that as well.

    Mageblade also doesnt look too good imho.

    So yes, if everyone runs heavy attacks to sustain, stamina has an advantage. But all other classes outperform nb.

    Jeckll – get on the PTS forum. Please. (highly possible you have been, and I missed it)

    They know people are pissed. They MIGHT listen to you as a content creator and class leader.

    The 1T Nerf swapping Focus to a Stam drain instead of an off-pool buff was enough, nerfing siphoning as our only remaining Mag dump/class sustain skill should be a battle cry.

    Your builds and theorycrafting has done more for making me a good player and (occasionally) raid lead than anything else out there. Let them know what is wrong.

    We’re all fighting, but you can lead the charge.

    And, as always…thank you for this thread.

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    Jeckll

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    Jianji

    wizzo45 said on April 22, 2017 :

    Jeckll said on April 21, 2017 :

    @liquidpony Ironclad doesnt help Stam specifically. It’s for everyone. Magicka might need less shielding – > more dps.

    Caltrops will help a bit to increase aoe / cleave dps. Still cant beat magicka dps imho in terms of aoe.

    Not sure about new sets making any difference. Stam sets in general are already pretty damn good. We will have to see.

    Seeing how stamplar gets better sustain, dks heavy attack builds are already very powerful and being the best Single target dps and Stamsorcs are fine as well, I think Stamblade is the worst stamina choice atm in Morrowind.

    The sustain advantage of Stamblades is gone as they riped siphoning attacks, relentless focus is retundant thanks to combat prayer. The Last class skill left is killer’s blade. You can easily skip that as well.

    Mageblade also doesnt look too good imho.

    So yes, if everyone runs heavy attacks to sustain, stamina has an advantage. But all other classes outperform nb.

    Jeckll – get on the PTS forum. Please. (highly possible you have been, and I missed it)

    They know people are pissed. They MIGHT listen to you as a content creator and class leader.

    The 1T Nerf swapping Focus to a Stam drain instead of an off-pool buff was enough, nerfing siphoning as our only remaining Mag dump/class sustain skill should be a battle cry.

    Your builds and theorycrafting has done more for making me a good player and (occasionally) raid lead than anything else out there. Let them know what is wrong.

    We’re all fighting, but you can lead the charge.

    And, as always…thank you for this thread.

    There is already a very solid thread from Asmael regarding the current state of Stamina dps which got a dev post.

    I dont think my voice is worth more than those from all of you. My knowledge is very specific while there are other ppl that can cover a broader picture like Asmael.

    I do what I can to help all of you to bring the best results possible with the class I love but zos makes it harder and harder to justify my raid slot.

    In homestead, I had to bring my very best play every second of every raid to compete with the other dds. Im still positive zos will adjust nb before Morrowind launches. I already posted a lot of Feedback via ingame Feature btw.

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    IzakiBrotherSs

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Jeckll said on April 21, 2017 :

    @liquidpony Ironclad doesnt help Stam specifically. It’s for everyone. Magicka might need less shielding – > more dps.

    Caltrops will help a bit to increase aoe / cleave dps. Still cant beat magicka dps imho in terms of aoe.

    Not sure about new sets making any difference. Stam sets in general are already pretty damn good. We will have to see.

    Seeing how stamplar gets better sustain, dks heavy attack builds are already very powerful and being the best Single target dps and Stamsorcs are fine as well, I think Stamblade is the worst stamina choice atm in Morrowind.

    The sustain advantage of Stamblades is gone as they riped siphoning attacks, relentless focus is retundant thanks to combat prayer. The Last class skill left is killer’s blade. You can easily skip that as well.

    Mageblade also doesnt look too good imho.

    So yes, if everyone runs heavy attacks to sustain, stamina has an advantage. But all other classes outperform nb.

    The main reason why stamina AoE can’t compete with magicka AoE is very simple: Elemental Rage. That… THING is just incredible for burning down add pulls. Outside of that, Endless Hail + Caltrops do kinda mesure up pretty well with Blockade + class AoE. But once again the problem is really identity: none of the stamina classes are really any different from another. Must have skills: Caltrops, Hail, Injection, Slashes/Steel Tornado, Deadly Cloak, Trap… That’s already basically your whole bars gone. If using vMA weapons, its even more ridiculous because you have to use Rapid Strikes.

    DKs can heavy attack as their spammable weave skill. Sorcs and Templars can use vMA rotation and heavy attack weave (while getting boni to stats and/or heavy attacks). NBs can… Execute? What would have been cool is if they hadn’t nerfed Siphoning Attacks at which point NBs would have been the only ones to sustain a Rapid Strikes rotation without begging for Shards all the time, which would totally make them a more viable choice compared to other stamina builds. I’m still hoping for a Relentless Focus change…

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    Jeckll

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    The strength of nightblades is their solo capabilities. With surprise attack and relentless focus, you have access to insanely strong abilities for solo content. That combined with the ability to self sustain with SO made us overall really powerful. That’s way we run through vma without any trouble.

    But all our benefits are not needed in raids as you get everything we’re good at as group buff. Take away minor Berserk from combat prayer, let siphoning attacks how it was and things are not so Grim anymore.

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 20 hours ago by Profile photo of Jeckll Jeckll.

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    Xydionze

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Hello Jeckll, thanks for the guide !

    I have a question, i’m actually 5xNMG 5xTBS & 3&Agility, should I go Velidreth & VO if it’s not divine item ?

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    Jeckll

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    Jianji

    Xydionze said on April 22, 2017 :

    Hello Jeckll, thanks for the guide !

    I have a question, i’m actually 5xNMG 5xTBS & 3&Agility, should I go Velidreth & VO if it’s not divine item ?

    It’s impossible to run 5x tbs and 5x Nmg.

    If you have sustain issues and/or you want to run vMA, you can go vo with Bad traits. If not, stick to your setup.

    Going Veli or kra’gh is most likely better than what you use. I mean there are useless traits and others are “just not so good”. You would need to post the complete setup to make a solid Call. But in general, Stam sets dps are pretty close. So if you dont have problems, you dont need to switch.

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    Xydionze

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    Khajiit Nightblade

    Oh yes sry my bad for the 5x NGM it’s 4 ( when Dual wield ).

    It’s more about my DPS but maybe it’s coz I have a bad rotation I’m still learning.

     

    Thanks for the tips :)

     

     

     

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    LiquidPony

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    Jeckll said on April 21, 2017 :

    @liquidpony Ironclad doesnt help Stam specifically. It’s for everyone. Magicka might need less shielding – > more dps.

    Caltrops will help a bit to increase aoe / cleave dps. Still cant beat magicka dps imho in terms of aoe.

    Not sure about new sets making any difference. Stam sets in general are already pretty damn good. We will have to see.

    Seeing how stamplar gets better sustain, dks heavy attack builds are already very powerful and being the best Single target dps and Stamsorcs are fine as well, I think Stamblade is the worst stamina choice atm in Morrowind.

    The sustain advantage of Stamblades is gone as they riped siphoning attacks, relentless focus is retundant thanks to combat prayer. The Last class skill left is killer’s blade. You can easily skip that as well.

    Mageblade also doesnt look too good imho.

    So yes, if everyone runs heavy attacks to sustain, stamina has an advantage. But all other classes outperform nb.

    I know that Ironclad doesn’t help stam specifically. But one of the tenets of the “thou shalt not raid with stam DPS” dogma is that stam doesn’t have shields. So of course we’re all looking for a shield that can be used by stam toons. But … if the Ironclad change and front-loading of defensive CP across the board means all characters get higher mitigation out of the box, maybe shields aren’t must-have anymore. And removing the necessity of shields probably isn’t a significant DPS increase for mag. On my magsorc, it’d likely mean that I just double-slot Inner Light, which would make a very small difference in damage. Additionally, we will probably have Wardens in group providing Major Protection, Major Resolve, and Minor Toughness (+10% max health). So, the way I see it, everyone’s been asking for viable stam shields but maybe the ZOS solution was to remove the necessity of using shields on mag DPS in group PvE.

    And I know the current TFS meta is very strong, but it’s basically a solo build. It provides no group utility. War Machine has awesome group utility as well as a huge self-buff. I could see 5 x War Machine + 5 x TFS + Velidreth being really good for stamblades and stamplars since they have cheap ultis. And TFS may no longer be necessary if stam DPS makes a comeback and we get NMG (or Sunderflame since stam DK heavy attack builds look like the new hotness). Minor Slayer + Major Slayer + Minor Force + Major Force + Soul Harvest buff … that might result in some crazy DPS bursts, especially in execute.

    In fact, I’m wondering if something like 5 x VO + 5 x War Machine + 2 x Kra’gh might not be the new BiS for Maelstrom on a stamblade. You can get crazy-good uptime on Major Slayer with Soul Harvest in Maelstrom. It’s like bringing your own Warhorn that you can keep up passively.

    But that’s all just throwing shit at the wall and I need to do some testing. On that note, @Jeckll, can you give me any advice on getting started on the PTS? I downloaded the client today, but unfortunately I play on console so I can’t copy a character and have no guildies to play with and no house with a target skeleton. I just happen to have a PC account from years ago. So I’ll have to use template characters but I’m hoping I can befriend some folks I’ve talked to on the forums in order to do some testing and provide good feedback to ZOS.

    As always, thanks for this guide and for the quality discussion.

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    Jeckll

    Grandmaster

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    Redguard Nightblade

    Jianji

    @liquidpony we played the trial raid and imho skipping shields is not a an option im afraid. Also the damage increase from not using shields isnt only a result of slotting something else like inner light but from the cooldowns you dont need to use on shields. But as I said, shields are required in the new content imho.

    The issue with gear options: sure, you can come up with new setups. But from what I saw, non of them are build in way that stamblades do best with them. So while you can get a semi useful setup, it’s still better to use some else to do the job.

    I mean yes, we could use soul harvest. But then I could just use a mageblade with faster ulti reg.

    As it is now, I think we reached the lowest point with Stamblade. And that doesnt mean Stamblade doesnt work. It will, as it does… But literally EVERYTHING else is flat out better for competitive trials.

     

    For pts, you have to use the the template. It doesnt provide racials atm so testing is limited. The sets provided are also trash. You also need to level Alchemy for Medicinal use. Not sure how much you can test with those. I have to wait 2 weeks until my character is Transfered.

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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    Drubbbb

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 1

    Im new to the game and am just wondering what the light armor and heavy armor should be, Major/Minor (Helmet, Chest etc). Does it matter ??

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    Jeckll

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 2091

    Redguard Nightblade

    Jianji

    Drubbbb said on April 24, 2017 :

    Im new to the game and am just wondering what the light armor and heavy armor should be, Major/Minor (Helmet, Chest etc). Does it matter ??

    Welcome to Tamriel.

    Ideally, you take a major part (chest) heavy and a minor part (belt) light. The pieces with the highest armor values are best used for the heavy piece while those with the lowest can be used for light.

    Player: @Jeckll || Guild: Aquila Raiders – Raidgroup Hydra|| Server: EU

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