Simple Questions – Simple Answers Thread VIII

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    Ghnami

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    Didz said on May 16, 2017 :

    But to my ignorant brain it makes perfect sense that a game engine, being a programme, crunches numbers to determine performance and the only numbers it has to work with are the character stats. So, for the moment at least I’m going to stick with the idea that builds are there to generate the best stats possible for a given class/role, and plan my future builds on that basis.

    Good of you to recognize ignorance over stupidity. I really think you’re just failing to acknowledge all the numbers that the program uses, like global cooldowns and all the other stats it computes. It’s like you’re wanting to become a doctor but focusing 3000% on the undergraduate part of the education, then totally ignoring the med school part of things. Might you be somewhat effective? Sure. You gonna be absolute shit compared to everyone that took the other approach? Absolutely.

    Didz said on May 16, 2017 :

    There is no real rush as it will probably be at least another year before any of my characters get close to CP160, and by then everyone will have rushed off to CP600.

    Because of the way enlightenment works, as soon as you hit level 50, you can get like cp100 very quickly. After that, use the daily enlightnment, it’ll provide multiple cp levels until cp250 or so. I’m not a big grinder either, but since I picked this game back up less than two weeks ago I got myself from cp100 to cp 232 as I write this post. Low cp go fast, as soon as I hit 180 or so I really noticed a change. There’s no need to feel like it is a grind, or there is pressure, but it’s just the game. CP160 is really just about how you can actually care about your gear since you’ll never need to upgrade it past that point. If you’re cp160 it doesn’t matter if everyone else is 600, because you can wear the same stuff. Because of cp stat scaling you won’t have their stats or dps or resource management, but you’ll have the gear.

    Morrowind Release means cp cap up to 630, cp xp scaling adusted so lower levels need even less xp, and the stat scaling will cap at cp300 instead of cp600. All this means that if you’re close to 50 by the time Morrowind hits, you’re gonna have a great time getting to 160.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

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    ams5626

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    Didz said on May 16, 2017 :

    Phew! Didn’t expect to open such a can of worms on the Simple Answer Thread, so perhaps it’s time to move on.

    You may beright, perhaps I am over complicatedly/simplifying the process. But to my ignorant brain it makes perfect sense that a game engine, being a programme, crunches numbers to determine performance and the only numbers it has to work with are the character stats. So, for the moment at least I’m going to stick with the idea that builds are there to generate the best stats possible for a given class/role, and plan my future builds on that basis.

    Actually finding the link between a Build and the Stats it generates isn’t that hard (thanks toAsayre‘s mathematic’s thread and the calculations used by the ESO Build Planner.) So, its easy enough to see how a specific build generate the final figures (excluding the Battle scaling of course.), but the ideal target numbers are harder to identify as they tend to be tucked away behind all the talk of skills and sets. However, Deltia did a very nice video about the targets he uses when assigning Attribute Points for his builds, and I’ve since found similar discussions on the relative merits of the three Recovery Stats, and the trade-off that has to be made between the Recovery and Power stats. So, I’m getting there slowly and learning all the way, which is part of the process.

    There is no real rush as it will probably be at least another year before any of my characters get close to CP160, and by then everyone will have rushed off to CP600.

    Update 13 is going to throw all the cards up in the air in a few days anyway with all its class balancing changes. So no doubt there will be another few weeks of frantic power-levelling after that release and the markets will go nuts as everyone crafts new gear, so my crafters and traders will be busy anyway.

    Lol, we could rename it “Complex Questions – Complex Answers Thread” . . . For real though, you definitely know what your doing and go with your gut with stats.  I am not contesting your knowledge at all, just trying to explain how fluid stats are and how they can be manipulated in so many ways.  Also, that a lot of the popular builds – the numbers they have and generate are with Characters whose stats are maxed (i.e. maxed out CP, maxed out passives, maxed out armor) so its hard to really correlate that to anything below max because simply the numbers and ouputs are different.  I.e. you can’t get maximum health/magicka/stamina without CPs and each CP adds to each resource so that would require different allocations of attributes/skills/gear to get the same sorts of numbers which would in exchange lower other numbers.  In that regard I would anticipate all along the way, even with battle scaling, there is going to have to be a constant adjustment of your skills, gear, and attributes to hit the sort of threshold you want (which being cautious statistically and underwhelming – 40,000 of your important resource and ~17,000 health seem to be solid thresholds to enable any sort of endgame; again tanks will be different).  Those sorts of numbers for a damage dealer can easily get you at least 20,000 damage/second if not 30,000 for an above average player.

    But as you said, continue doing what you do.  I commend your completionist style/patience in developing each character and wish you the best.  If your rotation/gameplay is good, you will not hit a statistical barrier to anything with non-meta builds and you will be welcome anywhere (albeit you won’t get invited to speed runs or some sort of leaderboard trial run, which are typically exclusive to pre-conceived guild teams anyways, but that’s really it).

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    Thogard

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    What stats, skills, and buffs affect procs on proc sets?

     

    For example, I have viper’s sting and velidreth on my stam DK.  Does the DK poison/flame dmg skill increase proc values?

    I don’t think that brutality does, but what about berserk? What about increasing spell dmg on jewelry enchants?

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    Ghnami

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    Thogard said on May 16, 2017 :

    What stats, skills, and buffs affect procs on proc sets?

    For example, I have viper’s sting and velidreth on my stam DK. Does the DK poison/flame dmg skill increase proc values?

    I don’t think that brutality does, but what about berserk? What about increasing spell dmg on jewelry enchants?

    I’m assuming you’re talking about the proc set scaling. The skill increase won’t be applied to the on-paper numbers, but they should translate to on-screen numbers. I think they just scale with your max damage resource/stat, and can never crit.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

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    Didz

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    Thogard said on May 16, 2017 :

    What stats, skills, and buffs affect procs on proc sets?

    For example, I have viper’s sting and velidreth on my stam DK. Does the DK poison/flame dmg skill increase proc values?

    I don’t think that brutality does, but what about berserk? What about increasing spell dmg on jewelry enchants?

    I was looking at this myself earlier and one of the odd things I noticed is that the ESO Build Planner appears to convert Weapon Crit Damage bonuses to percentile adjustments to the proc chance.

    View post on imgur.com

    The above is the Weapon Crit calculation for my current Nightblade which is gaining +544 Weapon Damage from set bonuses and +1533 from the passive skill Dexterity II.  Note that according to the build planner this is adding +29% to the proc chance rather than +2077 to the damage it deals.

    Note sure if this is an anomaly or intentional.  The same characters Weapon Critical Damage stat shows no evidence of the bonus at all.

    View post on imgur.com

    ++++

    I was out buying my lunch, and suddenly realised that the simple way to check this would be to look at my NB’s actually Weapon Crit% in game.  If it’s 39% then we know thats how its calculated.  If its still 10% then we know it isn’t and the Build Planner is wrong.  But alas nothing is that simple.

    View post on imgur.com

    As you can see my NB’s Weapon Crit% is neither 39% or 10% its 22.4%?

    That might be something to do with battle scaling, but i didn’t think the scaling affected percentages.

    ++++

    Sorry! me again.  I’ve been fiddling about trying to work out how +Weapon Critical Damage really works, and as far as I can tell the Build Planner is right and it is converted into an increased proc. chance.  At least, I’ve discovered that removing set items that show +Weapon Critical Damage on my NB in game actually reduces its Weapon Critical% not its damage. (not that the in-game stats list Weapon Critical Damage of course.)  So, the difference may just be some sort of scaling from Update 12.

    • This reply was modified 6 days, 17 hours ago by Profile photo of Didz Didz.
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    Ghnami

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    Whoa is that…a picture…of your stats? You have too much magika and hp for a stamina nightblade. If stamina is your main resource then it should be the highest stat, and if magika isn’t scaling with anything leave it at its base level.

    BTW Crit resistance does nothing pve, nothing crits pve.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

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    Didz

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    Ghnami said on May 17, 2017 :

    Whoa is that…a picture…of your stats? You have too much magika and hp for a stamina nightblade. If stamina is your main resource then it should be the highest stat, and if magika isn’t scaling with anything leave it at its base level.

    BTW Crit resistance does nothing pve, nothing crits pve.

    It’s not a Stamina Nightblade, it’s a Magicka Nightblade.  But I do agree that at the moment it has too much invested in Health.  Most of my characters do, at the moment, as I have been following Deltia’s advice to put all your attribute points into Health until Level 50 to maximise survivability during levelling.  It’s only since I started looking at optimum stats that I’ve begun to consider putting a cap on the Health stat.

     

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    ams5626

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    Didz said on May 18, 2017 :

    Ghnami said on May 17, 2017 :

    Whoa is that…a picture…of your stats? You have too much magika and hp for a stamina nightblade. If stamina is your main resource then it should be the highest stat, and if magika isn’t scaling with anything leave it at its base level.

    BTW Crit resistance does nothing pve, nothing crits pve.

    It’s not a Stamina Nightblade, it’s a Magicka Nightblade. But I do agree that at the moment it has too much invested in Health. Most of my characters do, at the moment, as I have been following Deltia’s advice to put all your attribute points into Health until Level 50 to maximise survivability during levelling. It’s only since I started looking at optimum stats that I’ve begun to consider putting a cap on the Health stat.

    How do you feel about the attribute points into health ?  Have you ever tried other things?  In my experience (and I have played both stamblade and magsorc as my two main characters, both damage dealers) I have never put an attribute point in anything but stamina or magicka for 2 reasons: 1) more resource to use skills to kill 2) increased damage to kill.

    Granted, nightblades feel a lot more squishy, not having a bubble and only having limited access to heals (particularly stamina nightblades) but at the same time I always approached it as a kill them before they kill you.  I.e. Stamblade at any level I was able to take on mobs of 3-5 no problem, just having the appropriate AoE down, targeting each npc down to get the kill heals…

    Thus, in my opinion Deltia is proposing something unlike what will be necessary to be good at the end game- promoting a playstyle where a damage dealer is tanky and can take hits.  Granted (while I haven’t) some people do invest a few points in health until they flesh out their character’s champion points or gear (i.e. to try and keep damage dealer’s health up near 17k), but thats only so many attribute points to cost like 500-1k dps.  Putting all attributes in health at say level 45 – while you’d be tanky, your damage output, resource pool, and everything would be abysmal.
    In sum, I would put at most 2-5 health.  and graduate off of that.. IF you are struggling to survive, put 10 in and wean yourself off of health attribute points.  You’ll find if you have the correct openers/rotation and can spit enough damage that your health bar never really moves.  Granted, I get it that nightblades get zoinked quickly (say by a delve boss with adds, or my least favorite npc the wispmother and those adds), but really once you get used to laying out high burst damage you will cut through everything making your amount of health obsolete (outside of say dungeons).

     

    I say that from experience, im CP~435 . . . I played stamblade a lot before switching back to magsorc . . . Stamblade/nightblades/melee dps there is minimal room for error in Veteran content, you need to know the dungeon battles and react quickly to stay alive, but you do elite single target damage and are the quintessential glass cannon.
    Obviously disregard if you are intending to turn you magblade into like a Sap-tank build or something, but just wanted to explain that I think Deltia is completely wrong and giving people bad advice.  Granted, love Deltia’s personality, kool guy, experienced player, great guides on a lot of subjects; but I wouldn’t rely on a lot of what he posts short of source checking to other builds and such from other elite level players.  Maybe that’s just my feeling as Deltia got really salty/whiney over the patch notes and changes coming with Morrowind (even so much as saying he’s done streaming) that it really made me untrustworthy of whatever he is promoting or saying because I feel his whininess in the last 30-40 days shows some true colors.  Note, I get that he feels personally insulted by ZoS over the changes because they sought his and other well known streamers advice for balancing changes and seemingly disregarded them, but the guy basically said he’s giving up on the game and that he hasn’t like it for a year or more.  Bogus..

     

    Best of luck,

    Cheers.. Ams

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    Ghnami

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    Didz said on May 18, 2017 :

    ost of my characters do, at the moment, as I have been following Deltia’s advice to put all your attribute points into Health until Level 50 to maximise survivability during levelling.

    Lol. Solid advice. Neuter new players so that the gap between the top and the bottom keeps widening. Great.

    If you want to do damage, stat for damage, period. If you want to survive, stat for survivability, period. Don’t think there’s some magical survivability number you have to hit if you’re a damage dealer. If you want to do less damage and have higher health, fine, but you’re gonna do less damage.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

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    ams5626

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    Ghnami said on May 18, 2017 :

    Didz said on May 18, 2017 :

    ost of my characters do, at the moment, as I have been following Deltia’s advice to put all your attribute points into Health until Level 50 to maximise survivability during levelling.

    Lol. Solid advice. Neuter new players so that the gap between the top and the bottom keeps widening. Great.

    If you want to do damage, stat for damage, period. If you want to survive, stat for survivability, period. Don’t think there’s some magical survivability number you have to hit if you’re a damage dealer. If you want to do less damage and have higher health, fine, but you’re gonna do less damage.

    Couldn’t agree more w/ regards to health.  My learning curve has been, aim to get (with all attribute points in magicka or stamina depending on character) 17,000 just because that is the maximum you can get if you have unlocked all passives (namely undaunted), have appropriate food buff, and have all the champion points (i.e the flat health bonus from getting all the red champion points, and without gearing for health)..

    After you realize that then you realize in certain circumstances – no amount of health will save you, in some circumstances it may, but that awareness of positioning and fight mechanics is of greater importance than health.

    In a very limited sense, I get Deltia’s advice.  Maybe until like level 10 it may be ok to spend in all health.  However, as soon as you understand your skills and identify a kill rotation stack magicka or stamina and gradually prepare to respec all attributes into that stat pool versus health.  By simple means, at level 50 = 64 attribute points in health but you’ll hit like a noodle.  Hitting like a noodle means more time to kill monsters and the more time it takes to kill the more exposure you have to getting attacked.

    In other words, by stacking more health you are making yourself use that health as opposed to 1) stacking damage resources, 2) having a rotation that kills.  Example- 3 npc mob fight – with appropriate opener you can down 1 if not 2 enemies in at most 3 seconds, but definitely before or (at latest) after being attacked once.  Without attributes in magicka or stamina, the time it takes to kill would be a lot more and the more time it takes to kill the more you are exposed to attacks.

    20kdps (an “OK” threshold acceptable level) x 3.5 seconds = 70k damage, 70k damage kills 2 average monsters (if not puts them half hit from death)

    with all health attributes, I’d guesstimate dps is well below 10k, but at most 10k per second:

    10kdps X 7 seconds = 70k damage, ” ” . . . It’s double the time and double the exposure to attacks, so by stacking health you are making yourself health dependent versus stacking damage and minimizing the risk to your health.

    Cheers,

    AMS

     

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 13 hours ago by Profile photo of ams5626 ams5626. Reason: Clarification
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    Ghnami

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    ams5626 said on May 18, 2017 :

    10kdps X 7 seconds = 70k damage, ” ” . . . It’s double the time and double the exposure to attacks, so by stacking health you are making yourself health dependent versus stacking damage and minimizing the risk to your health.

    And to help this hit home more, the attributes you put in health will not make your character take twice as long to kill.

    Block, dodge, kite, heal, shield, eat food, etc. Just use the tools in the game to stay alive without sacrificing damage if that’s what you want to do.

    • This reply was modified 5 days, 6 hours ago by Profile photo of Ghnami Ghnami. Reason: added food recommendation

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Can the DK skill Inferno–>Cauterize heal the caster?

    Normally I’d think “allies” included the caster, but it would be a bit odd in this particular case.

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Also on the DK, is one morph of Flappy Wings currently a strong favorite over the other?

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    Didz

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    ams5626 said on May 18, 2017 :

    Didz said on May 18, 2017 :

    It’s not a Stamina Nightblade, it’s a Magicka Nightblade. But I do agree that at the moment it has too much invested in Health. Most of my characters do, at the moment, as I have been following Deltia’s advice to put all your attribute points into Health until Level 50 to maximise survivability during levelling. It’s only since I started looking at optimum stats that I’ve begun to consider putting a cap on the Health stat.

    How do you feel about the attribute points into health ? Have you ever tried other things? In my experience (and I have played both stamblade and magsorc as my two main characters, both damage dealers) I have never put an attribute point in anything but stamina or magicka for 2 reasons: 1) more resource to use skills to kill 2) increased damage to kill.

    At the time I began playing ESO, putting all ones attribute points into Health was the recommended and accepted strategy for levelling.

    But, the Health attribute at that time was delivering 50% more bang for your buck in terms of stat increases, and as Deltia said at the time it made perfect sense to exploit that bonus and leave all your item, enchantment and trait slots free for other improvements.

    Of course since then the Health attribute bonus has been nerfed although even now a point in Health delivers 10% more benefit than a point in Magikca or Stamina in pure stat point terms.

    What this means is that all my characters are pretty resilient, and whereas I hear other players complaining about World Bosses etc. one-shotting them I rarely have that problem, and to be honest I’ve not really noticed a huge issue with damage or healing output from any of my characters as a result.  Certainly for levelling purposes I think its working fine.

    ams5626 said on May 18, 2017 :

    Thus, in my opinion Deltia is proposing something unlike what will be necessary to be good at the end game- promoting a playstyle where a damage dealer is tanky and can take hits. Granted (while I haven’t) some people do invest a few points in health until they flesh out their character’s champion points or gear (i.e. to try and keep damage dealer’s health up near 17k), but thats only so many attribute points to cost like 500-1k dps. Putting all attributes in health at say level 45 – while you’d be tanky, your damage output, resource pool, and everything would be abysmal.

    Perhaps! But even now he is still recommending a heavy investment in Health during levelling and a respec at Level 50.

    As far as damage output and sustainability is concerned I’ve not had any real problems on any of my characters, but you will notice that having invested all my attribute points in Health, everything else in their current builds is focussed on damage and sustainability.  So, there is a lot of investment elsewhere in either  Magicka or Stamina, and that seems to have been enough to see them through their levelling to date.

    ams5626 said on May 18, 2017 :

    In sum, I would put at most 2-5 health. and graduate off of that.. IF you are struggling to survive, put 10 in and wean yourself off of health attribute points. You’ll find if you have the correct openers/rotation and can spit enough damage that your health bar never really moves. Granted, I get it that nightblades get zoinked quickly (say by a delve boss with adds, or my least favorite npc the wispmother and those adds), but really once you get used to laying out high burst damage you will cut through everything making your amount of health obsolete (outside of say dungeons).

    I think the final investment in Health has to be governed by the rest of your build.

    In my opinion what Deltia is saying in his recent Attribute Point video makes perfect sense, and you need enough points in your character Health stat to avoid being one-shotted.  As without that your character is just a glass cannon with no time to react to a sudden powerful hit.

    His advice that one should re-spec after you have stabilized your build and should then only put enough attribute points into Health to top-up your Health stat to the minimum necessary to avoid being one-shotted makes perfect sense to me.  He reckons thats somewhere between 17k and 28k, but I suspect it depends what you’re planning to do with your character.  PvP is probably tougher than PvE in terms of likely burst damage.  His advice is that once you have met that minimum target for health everything else should be invested in either Magicka or Stamina.

    I can’t really comment on the quality of Deltia’s advice as I’m not really qualified to judge, and to a certain extent that’s why I’m trying to educate myself a bit more about build theory as I want to understand the logic behind this sort of advice and come up with my own strategies.

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 18 hours ago by Profile photo of Didz Didz.
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    ams5626

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    Didz said on May 19, 2017 :

    Sounds like you know what you’re doing then, if it works for you then stick with it.  I think perspective is important to it all.  I do veteran dungeons a lot (both PuGs and with guildmates) and that’s why i am all damage.  That’s my role ya know.  In them, many times (short of being a tank) if you don’t time a mechanic properly its death regardless of health amount (i.e getting hit for 45k haha).  In those situations I simply depend on my group to do their roles just as I do mine.  All I have to do is destroy everything and maintain awareness of my surroundings and I don’t die.
    I think the other important perspective that I overlooked is the fact you are leveling 1-50.  I underemphasized that at this point it may be difficult to solo Public Dungeons, or certain bosses whether it because stats are so dampened/weak or that certain critical class skills aren’t unlocked (I.e. im ~435CP and everything under 500k health is cake walk).  In that regard I guess I could see how stacking health would assist you, particularly if you are playing solo and attempting difficult content under level 50.

    I would also submit two things: 1) it would be build/character specific (i.e. magsorc stacking anything but magicka is ill advised because the more magicka you get the stronger your shield, Nightblades with sneak crit passives would in my opinion benefit more from resource than health, other than in dungeons when you can’t sneak attack); 2) the dps of being dead is 0 (or in a group setting folks argue its actually negative and below zero because it hurts the overall group’s output when someone has to rez).
    To each his own I suppose!  I would just opine that I have never encountered such a suggestion outside of Deltia.  In his prime, Deltia is obviously immensely educated about this game and its builds.  I love his guides for dungeoning and stuff.  Anymore though since his trolling over the Morrowind patches, in my opinion, his credibility is questioned.  I’m not saying I doubt anything he’s done is accurate or not good, I’m just saying he’s removed himself from the list of resources I consider consulting when in need for this game.  Additionally, I never liked his builds – I think mainly because he didn’t really favor the classes I was interested in (i.e. I got the impression his favorite was Templar, thus why he blew his lid after the patch notes) and always preferred Alcast or Fengrush (or the folks here like Yolo-Wizard or Jeckll.  I really enjoy the interaction with the creator of the build and there explanations.  I think that’s a critical part to understanding and playing such a build in a good way.

     

    Looking forward to the weekend and playing a bunch.

    Best,

    AMS

    • This reply was modified 4 days, 16 hours ago by Profile photo of ams5626 ams5626. Reason: Clarification
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    Ghnami

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    Didz said on May 19, 2017 :

    I can’t really comment on the quality of Deltia’s advice as I’m not really qualified to judge, and to a certain extent that’s why I’m trying to educate myself a bit more about build theory as I want to understand the logic behind this sort of advice and come up with my own strategies.

    This advice is straight up outdated. The list of things that will one shot you in this game that can’t be avoided by decent mechanical play and eating food is suuuupppper duper small. If you want to focus on damage, focus on damage. If you want to do a solo off-tank build or whatever fine, but you don’t really need to be afraid of anything one shotting you, and if you do, then you can learn a lesson about what happened and how to avoid it. Dying is only a big deal when speed running, and if you’re a speed runner you better be goddamned sure your mechanics are on point.

    It seems like you’re not quite getting it. I keep saying “Don’t follow this advice it’s bad,” and you keep saying “Oh hey here’s this advice from Deltias that I follow.” Don’t. That isn’t how the game works anymore. If you blow through the normal content with all hp attributes and cruise through easy mode, then you’ll be completely unprepared for what veteran/cp content is like. If you are a damage dealer and you don’t do that much damage, you’re gonna have a bad time. If the only way you can stay alive is by statting in HP and sacrificing damage, you’re gonna have a bad time.

    If you want to do damage, build and stat for damage. If you want survivability, build and stat for survivability. There’s no magical number you need to reach of survivability if you’re dps as long as you can just avoid red circles and press block/dodge when appropriate.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

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    Didz

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    Ghnami said on May 19, 2017 :

    This advice is straight up outdated.

    So, you keep saying, but the fact remains that it’s still the advice he is giving.  So, perhaps you need to take this point up with him.

    Ghnami said on May 19, 2017 :

    It seems like you’re not quite getting it. I keep saying “Don’t follow this advice it’s bad,” and you keep saying “Oh hey here’s this advice from Deltias that I follow.” Don’t. That isn’t how the game works anymore. If you blow through the normal content with all hp attributes and cruise through easy mode, then you’ll be completely unprepared for what veteran/cp content is like. If you are a damage dealer and you don’t do that much damage, you’re gonna have a bad time. If the only way you can stay alive is by stating in HP and sacrificing damage, you’re gonna have a bad time.

    I think you’re being unfair here.  I was actually answering ams5626‘s query about why my nightblade had so much invested in health.   The fact, that I’m here at all is testament to the fact that I’m trying to establish a better build strategy.  Yes! I could rush off and respec all my characters now to conform with your guidance, but by your own admission build isn’t that important till they reach CP160 anyway, so doing so now hardly seems worthwhile or necessary.

    What I’m trying to do is learn more about build theory so that I can begin to prepare for that event.  So, all your advice is being noted and put to good use, if not into actual action.

    ams5626 said on May 19, 2017 :

    Didz said on May 19, 2017 :

    Sounds like you know what you’re doing then, if it works for you then stick with it.

    Well as I’ve just said to @Ghnami above I’m not planning a major respec until I hit Level 50 at the earliest.  The only thing i might do in the interim is stop investing any more Attribute Points in Health and make a firm commitment to go for either Stamina or Magicka for each of my characters.  Up to now its not been that important as most of their skill points have gone into crafting anyway, and the Homestead update simply delayed the decision by requiring them to be multi-skilled to craft furniture, when prior to that they had been crafting specialists.[/quote]

    ams5626 said on May 19, 2017 :

    I think the other important perspective that I overlooked is the fact you are leveling 1-50. I underemphasized that at this point it may be difficult to solo Public Dungeons, or certain bosses whether it because stats are so dampened/weak or that certain critical class skills aren’t unlocked (I.e. im ~435CP and everything under 500k health is cake walk). In that regard I guess I could see how stacking health would assist you, particularly if you are playing solo and attempting difficult content under level 50.

    I think it definitely has helped, from purely anecdotal  evidence my fellow guild members who have been following the everything into magicka/stamina advice have had a much harder time dealing with things like World Bosses.  Not that I would ever try and solo them, but in a group I usually manage to stay on my feet whereas they are constantly complaining about being one-shotted.

    ams5626 said on May 19, 2017 :

    I would also submit two things: 1) it would be build/character specific (i.e. magsorc stacking anything but magicka is ill advised because the more magicka you get the stronger your shield, Nightblades with sneak crit passives would in my opinion benefit more from resource than health, other than in dungeons when you can’t sneak attack); 2) the dps of being dead is 0 (or in a group setting folks argue its actually negative and below zero because it hurts the overall group’s output when someone has to rez).

    One of the things I’m still researching is how the damage stats work.

    I’ve looked as Asaye’s damage calculation formula’s and it seems to me that there are several different aspects contributing to the final damage to target figure.  What I haven’t sorted out in my own head yet is which should be given priority in what circumstances.  So, maximising your characters Magicka or Stamina pool is clear enough once your have achieved your preferred minimum Health Stat (assuming you have one).

    But then there is the choice of how much to invest in the other factors that affect damage on target such as Penetration, Critical Damage, and Resource Recovery, particularly as some of these factors compete for the same slots in your build configuration.  So, for example: What Glyph to put on your jewelry seems to be a hotly debated topic. And there is a lot to learn, such as the fact that +Crit Damage modifiers don’t directly increase your critical damage, but actually boost your percentile chance to crit, thus increasing your DPS rather than burst damage.

    The answer, is going to be ‘it depends’ but what I haven’t grasped yet is the ‘on’ part.  It’s probably going to be dependent upon character class/role and perhaps even player combat style, and perhaps even AddOns.  Especially if one is planning to rely on drinks for resource recovery during combat.

    So, I’ve still go a lot to get my head round, but I reckon it will probably be months before I hit level 50 anyway.

    So I have time.

    • This reply was modified 3 days, 17 hours ago by Profile photo of Didz Didz.
  18. Profile Photo
    Ghnami

    Expert

    Total Posts: 495

    Breton Templar

    Didz said on May 20, 2017 :

    So, for example: What Glyph to put on your jewelry seems to be a hotly debated topi

    Wep damage/spell power. I don’t think there are really other options for damage dealers.

    Generally, resource recovery isn’t something that dps worry about in this state of the game. Healers really need it though. Penetration is the name of the game endgame. I think you’re shooting for like 18k penetration, which isn’t really possible except in a group. And honestly, pre-50/160 I’d say your most important stats to buff for damage dealing are spell power, weapon damage, and penetration. Crit isn’t super awesome until you can stack a lot. I’d highly recommend crafting two sharpened or training purple swords of torug’s pact for your front bar, really simple way to buff your damage way up.

    Always down to chat in-game. IGN: Ghnami

  19. Member Avatar
    Cambo

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 3

    Altmer Templar

    I play a High Elf Magplar. I’m running 5-piece Julianos on one bar, 5-piece Kagrenac’s Hope when switched to 2nd bar. 1800 is about the highest spell damage I can obtain without buffs whenever I’m on Julianos bar but I don’t get the spell damage bonus from Kagrenac’s since it’s on the other bar. Is there any other set combination that can raise my spell damage pre-buff while also being on the same bar? I believe some sets have spell damage bonus when wearing 2 or 3 pieces but I want to know what you guys recommend. Also running Willpower necklace and rings.

    • This reply was modified 1 day, 9 hours ago by Profile photo of Cambo Cambo.
  20. Member Avatar
    ams5626

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 37

    Altmer Sorcerer

    Cambo said on May 22, 2017 :

    I play a High Elf Magplar. I’m running 5-piece Julianos on one bar, 5-piece Kagrenac’s Hope when switched to 2nd bar. 1800 is about the highest spell damage I can obtain without buffs whenever I’m on Julianos bar but I don’t get the spell damage bonus from Kagrenac’s since it’s on the other bar. Is there any other set combination that can raise my spell damage pre-buff while also being on the same bar? I believe some sets have spell damage bonus when wearing 2 or 3 pieces but I want to know what you guys recommend. Also running Willpower necklace and rings.

    Woops… I missed the magplar part -.0 Disregard, I responded on the presumption u said magsorc and that I knew what I was talking about

    • This reply was modified 1 day, 8 hours ago by Profile photo of ams5626 ams5626.

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