Nos's "Azor Ahai" MagPlar Trial DPS Build (HotR DLC ready)

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    decay

    Expert

    Total Posts: 317

    Dunmer Templar

    DSGNjunkie said on June 12, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on June 12, 2017 :

    Oh man! Thats cool! Yeah so my only dilemma is when to use crescent sweep, but im leaning towarda right before jabbing and here is why:

    1. Jabs is your highest damage skill so getting thw damage buff prior to using it seems like a no brainer.

    2 The one issue with this, is the fact that crescebt sweep procs burning light. By using it immediately before jabs you are loaing all those burning light procs, since you will gwt then from jabs and the cooldown will likely make you lose the additional procs from it. But I think ita a worthwhile loss.

    Interesting, I agree with both those points. The argument you could make for using it directly after (so, two jabs, ULT, then purifying light bar swap cancel) would be that because it’s a 10 second buff, you’d have it up long enough to refresh your dots and get back to sweeping while the buff would still be up? I imagine vamp>wall>spear>swap>3x jabs would all fit into a 10sec window… and maybe then you could maximize use of burning light?.. eh?

    The CD of burning light is 0.5s. If you just consider Crescent Sweep, it can always proc again on Puncturing Sweeps without issues. It could only get into conflict with Blazing Spear, but this is up most of the time anyways?

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1975

    Khajiit Templar

    decay said on June 14, 2017 :

    DSGNjunkie said on June 12, 2017 :

    Interesting, I agree with both those points. The argument you could make for using it directly after (so, two jabs, ULT, then purifying light bar swap cancel) would be that because it’s a 10 second buff, you’d have it up long enough to refresh your dots and get back to sweeping while the buff would still be up? I imagine vamp>wall>spear>swap>3x jabs would all fit into a 10sec window… and maybe then you could maximize use of burning light?.. eh?

    The CD of burning light is 0.5s. If you just consider Crescent Sweep, it can always proc again on Puncturing Sweeps without issues. It could only get into conflict with Blazing Spear, but this is up most of the time anyways?

    For highest burbing light uptime you want to cast it not when you are jabbing, but I think the gain from having the Major Slayer bonus during Puncturing Sweeps far outweighs the possible procs of bur i g light you may be losing.

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    decay

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    Dunmer Templar

    Nosferatuzod said on June 14, 2017 :

    decay said on June 14, 2017 :

    The CD of burning light is 0.5s. If you just consider Crescent Sweep, it can always proc again on Puncturing Sweeps without issues. It could only get into conflict with Blazing Spear, but this is up most of the time anyways?

    For highest burbing light uptime you want to cast it not when you are jabbing, but I think the gain from having the Major Slayer bonus during Puncturing Sweeps far outweighs the possible procs of bur i g light you may be losing.

    Totally forgot that there is a dot now … sry

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    KingKaiju

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 3

    Is this viable in Non-Morrowind?

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    Nosferatuzod

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    Khajiit Templar

    KingKaiju said on June 14, 2017 :

    Is this viable in Non-Morrowind?

    Morrowind is everywhere now

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    Eakerr4

    Novice

    Total Posts: 16

    I tried coming at the ‘War Maiden’ question from a different angle than ‘is it better than Julianos’ and instead asked if it was better than Moondancer. I understand that with a set up of Julianos + War Maiden you would immediatley encounter two major problems:

    1) How do you sustain?

    2) How do you get gold jewelry?

    And the answers are with a lightning staff build that mixes in HA and LA as part of your normal weave rotation. As for the gold jewelry, you dont, but that still might be OK. In this spreadsheet I have built my set up, performed some dummy tests, and recorded / uploaded the rotation on a YouTube video (forgive the graphics I was testing graphics for a new channel format and getting feedback but have since refined them)

    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1kH2gv07yMmcaNpoSG6rpqRgJxqf_xI_waREgkPeTq9Q/htmlview

     

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    CommanderD

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    Daggerfall

    Hi guys. Please explain if you can. Are pets steal g master architect buff?

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

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    Khajiit Templar

    CommanderD said on June 19, 2017 :

    Hi guys. Please explain if you can. Are pets steal g master architect buff?

    Yes from what i heard…i dont have it yet, so not sure

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    olmrshadowlo

    Novice

    Total Posts: 19

    Dunmer Templar

    Any points into master at arms?

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

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    Khajiit Templar

    olmrshadowlo said on June 20, 2017 :

    Any points into master at arms?

    Nope

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    olmrshadowlo

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    Dunmer Templar

    Any reason behind it? Im im Xbox so i cant realy ser raid parses but on the dummy i had a increase when i put points into there

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

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    Khajiit Templar

    olmrshadowlo said on June 20, 2017 :

    Any reason behind it? Im im Xbox so i cant realy ser raid parses but on the dummy i had a increase when i put points into there

    Points are better spent elsewhere.

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    DSGNjunkie

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 79

    Altmer Templar

    Figured I’d check in and update on the (somewhat hazey) results I’m seeing with the Master Architect setup.

    What I’ve been running:

    – Sharpened Maelstrom lightning staff back bar
    – 2 MA swords front bar, 1 sharp 1 infused
    – 3 MA jewlery (only blue for now as we have yet to clear vHoF)
    – 5 Julianos full dvivines on body
    – 2 Grothdarr divines (1 heavy 1 medium)

    Overall the damage parses I’ve been putting up on dummies are falling roughly ~1-2k lower than the Moondancer/julianos setup (moondancer parses all start with a SP proc and then do not proc again) and this is most likely due to the fact that I’m still getting used to weaving empowering sweep into my rotation. I’ve found you can alternate between 3x sweeps and 2x sweeps+1 empowering every other rotation, as long as you’re hitting all of your LA weaves. So overall the results aren’t much different than the MD setup as far as dps.

    Now for sustain… let’s be honest, sustain is almost not an issue AT ALL when you’re running channeled focus in your rotation and are hitting synergies for the MD sustain proc. While in a parse setting I can still sustain a full dummy with the MA set on, I have found in trials that I am switching to my lightning vma staff a lot more to get that juicy mag back. So I would probably tag this as the biggest downside to the setup.

    Now for the major slayer aspects. Yes, it’s true that pets are stealing the buff which is very, very frustrating. (wtf ZOS) That being said, I have taken some time to do robust parses with a dps buddy and the results have been quite promising. In a somewhat controlled environment, we had both a mag sorc and a magblade test beside me with another friend standing by to apply eledrain. (Remember I’m on console so I really can only judge things by the ending numbers we see) We did many tests where I would use my normal setup (MD/Julianos/destro ults) and the same amount in the new setup (MA/Julianos/Empowering Sweep) and found that although my damage was consistently dropping about 1k, we found relatively reliably that my added major slayer procs from popping off cheap ults every other rotation increased my allies dps parse numbers by 2-3k, which is pretty substantial. Again, I am very eager to see more testing on this appear from PC players as I really can’t judge an accurate uptime of major slayer and how impactful that is being, but at the end of the day this really boils down to just how useful it will be in a trial setting. I’d say it most heavily comes down to your group composition and your ability to maintain a formation that ensures your dps are the ones receiving the buff.

    So anyways, just figured I’d share… looking forward to seeing if this set can be fine-tuned or if it really belongs on only magblades. Cheers!

     

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1975

    Khajiit Templar

    DSGNjunkie said on June 21, 2017 :

    Figured I’d check in and update on the (somewhat hazey) results I’m seeing with the Master Architect setup.

    What I’ve been running:

    – Sharpened Maelstrom lightning staff back bar
    – 2 MA swords front bar, 1 sharp 1 infused
    – 3 MA jewlery (only blue for now as we have yet to clear vHoF)
    – 5 Julianos full dvivines on body
    – 2 Grothdarr divines (1 heavy 1 medium)

    Overall the damage parses I’ve been putting up on dummies are falling roughly ~1-2k lower than the Moondancer/julianos setup (moondancer parses all start with a SP proc and then do not proc again) and this is most likely due to the fact that I’m still getting used to weaving empowering sweep into my rotation. I’ve found you can alternate between 3x sweeps and 2x sweeps+1 empowering every other rotation, as long as you’re hitting all of your LA weaves. So overall the results aren’t much different than the MD setup as far as dps.

    Now for sustain… let’s be honest, sustain is almost not an issue AT ALL when you’re running channeled focus in your rotation and are hitting synergies for the MD sustain proc. While in a parse setting I can still sustain a full dummy with the MA set on, I have found in trials that I am switching to my lightning vma staff a lot more to get that juicy mag back. So I would probably tag this as the biggest downside to the setup.

    Now for the major slayer aspects. Yes, it’s true that pets are stealing the buff which is very, very frustrating. (wtf ZOS) That being said, I have taken some time to do robust parses with a dps buddy and the results have been quite promising. In a somewhat controlled environment, we had both a mag sorc and a magblade test beside me with another friend standing by to apply eledrain. (Remember I’m on console so I really can only judge things by the ending numbers we see) We did many tests where I would use my normal setup (MD/Julianos/destro ults) and the same amount in the new setup (MA/Julianos/Empowering Sweep) and found that although my damage was consistently dropping about 1k, we found relatively reliably that my added major slayer procs from popping off cheap ultsevery other rotation increased my allies dps parse numbers by 2-3k, which is pretty substantial. Again, I am very eager to see more testing on this appear from PC players as I really can’t judge an accurate uptime of major slayer and how impactful that is being, but at the end of the day this really boils down to just how useful it will be in a trial setting. I’d say it most heavily comes down to your group composition and your ability to maintain a formation that ensures your dps are the ones receiving the buff.

    So anyways, just figured I’d share… looking forward to seeing if this set can be fine-tuned or if it really belongs on only magblades. Cheers!

    Thank you! This helps a lot! While Im personally collecting the set as well, Im more excited to try War machine on stamplar, because unlike magplar, the loss of Rend for Empowered Sweep is not as huge as the loss of Destro Ult for Crescent Sweep. Im missing a sharp TFS Dagger. As soon as I get it, I will test this setup. While on a magplar the loss of moondancer is a huge sustain hit, on stam, loss of VO is not catastrophic.

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    DSGNjunkie

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    Altmer Templar

    Is that parse you posted form this patch? You cut the month off the date so I can’t tell…

    Idk about you but magplar feels like it got hit super hard this patch… not to mention the current % calculation bug(?) happening now with jesus beam and sweeps… are you having any success on your magplar still, or do your groups just avoid running them?

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    Nosferatuzod

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    Khajiit Templar

    DSGNjunkie said on June 25, 2017 :

    Is that parse you posted form this patch? You cut the month off the date so I can’t tell…

    Idk about you but magplar feels like it got hit super hard this patch… not to mention the current % calculation bug(?) happening now with jesus beam and sweeps… are you having any success on your magplar still, or do your groups just avoid running them?

    Hey which parse do you mean? Magplars definitely got hit hard, but they can still do decent damage. Personally since we are only running hoF at the moment I have swapped to my stam toons, since the damage is so much better…

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    Eakerr4

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    Empowering Sweeps must be a huge DPS loss because I went from hitting 38-39k parses with someone else applying ele drain / MD 5 pc procs to hitting 33k. Now I do have a blue ring and neck so that surely has some effect but it can’t be more than 1k dps loss. I can’t justify wearing this set if I am losing that much but only adding 1.3k to each of my buddies as was our results during tests. They love it but I hate it, and the raid as a whole is hurt because -6000 + 2600 = a dps loss of 3400.

     

    Funny because it seems that the sweeps are indeed receiving the major slayer bonus from itself –and if it worked the way i thought (add 15% to dmg) then it should be very competitive when you look at it per ultimate. Similarly, having up times of 50% ~ was promising because that means it would be equivalent to a 7.5% dmg buff all the time in terms of DPS. My understanding of the old debate between minor slayer and will power was that 1.3%~ dmg is roughly 100 spell dmg in terms of trial DPS so that this should provide ~576 spell power which is obviously more than moondancer procs. On paper it seemed superior to moondancer but the results have just been miserable. I’m not sure but I will do some tests to see if the switch from a elemental damage ult to a magic damage ult can tip the scales in favor of war maiden but even then i can’t see myself making up 6k dps loss.I’m very confused about this set and frustrated with this because i believed that this set would help magplars find their place in trials as buffers of major slayer / extra shards / executors

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

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    Khajiit Templar

    Eakerr4 said on June 25, 2017 :

    Empowering Sweeps must be a huge DPS loss because I went from hitting 38-39k parses with someone else applying ele drain / MD 5 pc procs to hitting 33k. Now I do have a blue ring and neck so that surely has some effect but it can’t be more than 1k dps loss. I can’t justify wearing this set if I am losing that much but only adding 1.3k to each of my buddies as was our results during tests. They love it but I hate it, and the raid as a whole is hurt because -6000 + 2600 = a dps loss of 3400.

    Funny because it seems that the sweeps are indeed receiving the major slayer bonus from itself –and if it worked the way i thought (add 15% to dmg) then it should be very competitive when you look at it per ultimate. Similarly, having up times of 50% ~ was promising because that means it would be equivalent to a 7.5% dmg buff all the time in terms of DPS. My understanding of the old debate between minor slayer and will power was that 1.3%~ dmg is roughly 100 spell dmg in terms of trial DPS so that this should provide ~576 spell power which is obviously more than moondancer procs. On paper it seemed superior to moondancer but the results have just been miserable. I’m not sure but I will do some tests to see if the switch from a elemental damage ult to a magic damage ult can tip the scales in favor of war maiden but even then i can’t see myself making up 6k dps loss.I’m very confused about this set and frustrated with this because i believed that this set would help magplars find their place in trials as buffers of major slayer / extra shards / executors

    Its definitely a tradeoff…I would test it in trials to confirm though…in trials moondancer uptime averages around 50 and you HAVE to synergize….with this set you can just do your rotation without interruption.

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    DSGNjunkie

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 79

    Altmer Templar

    Eakerr4 said on June 25, 2017 :

    Empowering Sweeps must be a huge DPS loss because I went from hitting 38-39k parses with someone else applying ele drain / MD 5 pc procs to hitting 33k. Now I do have a blue ring and neck so that surely has some effect but it can’t be more than 1k dps loss. I can’t justify wearing this set if I am losing that much but only adding 1.3k to each of my buddies as was our results during tests. They love it but I hate it, and the raid as a whole is hurt because -6000 + 2600 = a dps loss of 3400.

    Funny because it seems that the sweeps are indeed receiving the major slayer bonus from itself –and if it worked the way i thought (add 15% to dmg) then it should be very competitive when you look at it per ultimate. Similarly, having up times of 50% ~ was promising because that means it would be equivalent to a 7.5% dmg buff all the time in terms of DPS. My understanding of the old debate between minor slayer and will power was that 1.3%~ dmg is roughly 100 spell dmg in terms of trial DPS so that this should provide ~576 spell power which is obviously more than moondancer procs. On paper it seemed superior to moondancer but the results have just been miserable. I’m not sure but I will do some tests to see if the switch from a elemental damage ult to a magic damage ult can tip the scales in favor of war maiden but even then i can’t see myself making up 6k dps loss.I’m very confused about this set and frustrated with this because i believed that this set would help magplars find their place in trials as buffers of major slayer / extra shards / executors

    Were your 38-39k parses w/ lightning wall?? I can’t seem to get above 33K with an inferno… but I still need to smooth out my rotation a bit, would you mind sharing yours? I would be interested to see if it differs from mine much.

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    sargentwilko51

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 61

    Dunmer Templar

    Nosferatuzod said on June 26, 2017 :

    Eakerr4 said on June 25, 2017 :

    Empowering Sweeps must be a huge DPS loss because I went from hitting 38-39k parses with someone else applying ele drain / MD 5 pc procs to hitting 33k. Now I do have a blue ring and neck so that surely has some effect but it can’t be more than 1k dps loss. I can’t justify wearing this set if I am losing that much but only adding 1.3k to each of my buddies as was our results during tests. They love it but I hate it, and the raid as a whole is hurt because -6000 + 2600 = a dps loss of 3400.

    Funny because it seems that the sweeps are indeed receiving the major slayer bonus from itself –and if it worked the way i thought (add 15% to dmg) then it should be very competitive when you look at it per ultimate. Similarly, having up times of 50% ~ was promising because that means it would be equivalent to a 7.5% dmg buff all the time in terms of DPS. My understanding of the old debate between minor slayer and will power was that 1.3%~ dmg is roughly 100 spell dmg in terms of trial DPS so that this should provide ~576 spell power which is obviously more than moondancer procs. On paper it seemed superior to moondancer but the results have just been miserable. I’m not sure but I will do some tests to see if the switch from a elemental damage ult to a magic damage ult can tip the scales in favor of war maiden but even then i can’t see myself making up 6k dps loss.I’m very confused about this set and frustrated with this because i believed that this set would help magplars find their place in trials as buffers of major slayer / extra shards / executors

    Its definitely a tradeoff…I would test it in trials to confirm though…in trials moondancer uptime averages around 50 and you HAVE to synergize….with this set you can just do your rotation without interruption.

    We saw the same when we did that ‘raid testing’ on the new 52M dummy.  Our magplar, (myself) experienced about a 5 to 8k dps loss when putting on master.  In that scenario, it turned into a substantial dps loss for the magplar with a fairly negligible increase on the others that may or may nor receive the buff.

    I haven’t dug too deep into the math behind it, simply because it was looking so poor at the first few passes, but assuming no funny zos math, magplars (with RO and sweeps) are, themselves, the least to benefit from the slayer proc.  Since their spammable and execute both get hit with the damage done calculation, my bet, that opposed to the 20 (minor and major) people think they get, its probably closer to 15ish when major is up and 3ish when its not.

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