Magicka sorcerer considerations for Morrowind

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Like pretty much all specs, magicka sorcerers are being hit with massive nerfs to sustain, based on the first set of PTS patch notes for Morrowind. So what are the implications and first thoughts about how to compensate? My reactions start:

    • I play a lot without chugging potions, even in the harder content that I do. Those days may be over.
    • Pet damage is great — it’s unnerfed, with negligible new issues in sustain. (If you have to spend magicka to keep your pet alive, then you run into the same sustain problems you do with anything else. Ditto if you buff them with Daedric Prey. Otherwise, they’re “free” damage.)
    • Obviously, it’s tempting to change gear, specifically in jewelry enchants and set bonuses to favor sustain.
    • Necropotence doesn’t do anything for sustain, and also doesn’t do anything for weapon basic attacks. Oops.
    • If you need to heavy attack during a fight for sustain reasons, and the fight has both AoE and single-target parts, the AoE time is ideal for the heavy attacking. (This is actually a comment about any spec that includes a lightning staff.)
    • Overload has always had great bang per ultimate point for damage, at least single-target damage. But it’s had a lot less bang per second than other uses of your ultimate stash. If overall DPS is lowered, then Overload becomes more attractive.
    • I’ve always preferred the Energy Overload morph anyway.
    • Too bad it’s clunky to dip in and out of Overload.
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    CasNation

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    Good considerations. We may also see a rise in the use of Dark Exchange and Spell Symmetry again in DPS/heal rotations. If this is the case sorcs are in a pretty good place, as the native access to shields allows for protecting the health hit from spell symmetry. And if that ability doesn’t end up working, then dark exchange becomes an attractive alternative. We will just have to see if that is more viable in pve group content than just heavy attacking all the time.

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    Nosferatuzod

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    FrancisCrawford said on April 18, 2017 :

    Like pretty much all specs, magicka sorcerers are being hit with massive nerfs to sustain, based on the first set of PTS patch notes for Morrowind. So what are the implications and first thoughts about how to compensate? My reactions start:

    • I play a lot without chugging potions, even in the harder content that I do. Those days may be over.
    • Pet damage is great — it’s unnerfed, with negligible new issues in sustain. (If you have to spend magicka to keep your pet alive, then you run into the same sustain problems you do with anything else. Ditto if you buff them with Daedric Prey. Otherwise, they’re “free” damage.)
    • Obviously, it’s tempting to change gear, specifically in jewelry enchants and set bonuses to favor sustain.
    • Necropotence doesn’t do anything for sustain, and also doesn’t do anything for weapon basic attacks. Oops.
    • If you need to heavy attack during a fight for sustain reasons, and the fight has both AoE and single-target parts, the AoE time is ideal for the heavy attacking. (This is actually a comment about any spec that includes a lightning staff.)
    • Overload has always had great bang per ultimate point for damage, at least single-target damage. But it’s had a lot less bang per second than other uses of your ultimate stash. If overall DPS is lowered, then Overload becomes more attractive.
    • I’ve always preferred the Energy Overload morph anyway.
    • Too bad it’s clunky to dip in and out of Overload.

    Personally I highly doubt that the devs will keep the sustain at this ridiculous level, that being said I found my best performing on the PTS currently to be: 4 Moondancer 2 Ilambris 1 vMA 5 Netch’s Touch. Using heavy attack, Familiar, Prey, Shock Clench, LL and Blockade you can get 37k+ on the dummy, whilst using full spell damage equipment. I thi k your point for Heavy attacking during add phases is definitely on point, but I wonder if that will be enough to sustain us through the entire fight.

    I also compared the damage of Skills while using necro versus Netch’s Touch and all of the skills hit harder with Netch (especially Heavy attack) with the mild exception of Familiar.

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    CasNation

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    Nosferatuzod said on April 19, 2017 :

    FrancisCrawford said on April 18, 2017 :

    Like pretty much all specs, magicka sorcerers are being hit with massive nerfs to sustain, based on the first set of PTS patch notes for Morrowind. So what are the implications and first thoughts about how to compensate? My reactions start:

    • I play a lot without chugging potions, even in the harder content that I do. Those days may be over.
    • Pet damage is great — it’s unnerfed, with negligible new issues in sustain. (If you have to spend magicka to keep your pet alive, then you run into the same sustain problems you do with anything else. Ditto if you buff them with Daedric Prey. Otherwise, they’re “free” damage.)
    • Obviously, it’s tempting to change gear, specifically in jewelry enchants and set bonuses to favor sustain.
    • Necropotence doesn’t do anything for sustain, and also doesn’t do anything for weapon basic attacks. Oops.
    • If you need to heavy attack during a fight for sustain reasons, and the fight has both AoE and single-target parts, the AoE time is ideal for the heavy attacking. (This is actually a comment about any spec that includes a lightning staff.)
    • Overload has always had great bang per ultimate point for damage, at least single-target damage. But it’s had a lot less bang per second than other uses of your ultimate stash. If overall DPS is lowered, then Overload becomes more attractive.
    • I’ve always preferred the Energy Overload morph anyway.
    • Too bad it’s clunky to dip in and out of Overload.

    Personally I highly doubt that the devs will keep the sustain at this ridiculous level, that being said I found my best performing on the PTS currently to be: 4 Moondancer 2 Ilambris 1 vMA 5 Netch’s Touch. Using heavy attack, Familiar, Prey, Shock Clench, LL and Blockade you can get 37k+ on the dummy, whilst using full spell damage equipment. I thi k your point for Heavy attacking during add phases is definitely on point, but I wonder if that will be enough to sustain us through the entire fight.

    I also compared the damage of Skills while using necro versus Netch’s Touch and all of the skills hit harder with Netch (especially Heavy attack) with the mild exception of Familiar.

    I agree, I think they brought sustain down to the dumpster and will work up over the coming weeks rather than trying to work down.

    For reference, what does Netchs Touch do? I haven’t seen all the sets yet.

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    FrancisCrawford

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    CasNation said on April 19, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on April 19, 2017 :

    Personally I highly doubt that the devs will keep the sustain at this ridiculous level, that being said I found my best performing on the PTS currently to be: 4 Moondancer 2 Ilambris 1 vMA 5 Netch’s Touch. Using heavy attack, Familiar, Prey, Shock Clench, LL and Blockade you can get 37k+ on the dummy, whilst using full spell damage equipment. I thi k your point for Heavy attacking during add phases is definitely on point, but I wonder if that will be enough to sustain us through the entire fight.

    I also compared the damage of Skills while using necro versus Netch’s Touch and all of the skills hit harder with Netch (especially Heavy attack) with the mild exception of Familiar.

    I agree, I think they brought sustain down to the dumpster and will work up over the coming weeks rather than trying to work down.

    For reference, what does Netchs Touch do? I haven’t seen all the sets yet.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Netch's+Touch+Set

    Netch’s Touch falls in Darkshade Caverns; it’s basically Silks of the Sun for shock damage. 400 Spell Power, but only for lightning attack stuff. So a large majority of your damage needs to be lightning for it to outperform Julianos.

    Nos’ rotation seems to have had Prey as the only non-shock skill damage (no Force Pulse, no Frags). I presume staffs were lightning/fire, given the Ilambris, from somewhere in his collection of set gear, so the other non-shock damage might be Ilambris fire procs and some fire staff weaves.

    Julianos would surely perform almost as well. But since he’s including VMA staffs, the traditional crafted-set advantage of easier-to-obtain weapons wouldn’t apply..

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    Latin

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    FrancisCrawford said on April 19, 2017 :

    Netch’s Touch falls in Darkshade Caverns; it’s basically Silks of the Sun for shock damage. 400 Spell Power, but only for lightning attack stuff. So a large majority of your damage needs to be lightning for it to outperform Julianos.

    At least 75% of your total damage needs to be shock damage for it to outperform Julianos.

     

    @CasNation

    It’s an old set from patch 2.6.

    e pluribus unum

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    CasNation

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    Thanks, good to know. Haven’t really been in the loop for awhile. Got hooked on TES: Legends, and haven’t been playing ESO much.

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    Nosferatuzod

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    FrancisCrawford said on April 19, 2017 :

    CasNation said on April 19, 2017 :

    I agree, I think they brought sustain down to the dumpster and will work up over the coming weeks rather than trying to work down.

    For reference, what does Netchs Touch do? I haven’t seen all the sets yet.

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Netch's+Touch+Set

    Netch’s Touch falls in Darkshade Caverns; it’s basically Silks of the Sun for shock damage. 400 Spell Power, but only for lightning attack stuff. So a large majority of your damage needs to be lightning for it to outperform Julianos.

    Nos’ rotation seems to have had Prey as the only non-shock skill damage (no Force Pulse, no Frags). I presume staffs were lightning/fire, given the Ilambris, from somewhere in his collection of set gear, so the other non-shock damage might be Ilambris fire procs and some fire staff weaves.

    Julianos would surely perform almost as well. But since he’s including VMA staffs, the traditional crafted-set advantage of easier-to-obtain weapons wouldn’t apply..

    No firre damage except meteor, just got 39.2k with this setup on target dummy with just ele drain. All hail the new meta – 4 FHA sorcs with lightning blockades and 4 DK DPS with Flame Lash

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Nosferatuzod said on April 19, 2017 :

    FrancisCrawford said on April 19, 2017 :

    http://elderscrollsonline.wiki.fextralife.com/Netch's+Touch+Set

    Netch’s Touch falls in Darkshade Caverns; it’s basically Silks of the Sun for shock damage. 400 Spell Power, but only for lightning attack stuff. So a large majority of your damage needs to be lightning for it to outperform Julianos.

    Nos’ rotation seems to have had Prey as the only non-shock skill damage (no Force Pulse, no Frags). I presume staffs were lightning/fire, given the Ilambris, from somewhere in his collection of set gear, so the other non-shock damage might be Ilambris fire procs and some fire staff weaves.

    Julianos would surely perform almost as well. But since he’s including VMA staffs, the traditional crafted-set advantage of easier-to-obtain weapons wouldn’t apply..

    No firre damage except meteor, just got 39.2k with this setup on target dummy with just ele drain. All hail the new meta – 4 FHA sorcs with lightning blockades and 4 DK DPS with Flame Lash

    FHA = Full Heavy Attack?

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    Nosferatuzod

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    FrancisCrawford said on April 19, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on April 19, 2017 :

    No firre damage except meteor, just got 39.2k with this setup on target dummy with just ele drain. All hail the new meta – 4 FHA sorcs with lightning blockades and 4 DK DPS with Flame Lash

    FHA = Full Heavy Attack?

    Yes….i am 99% sure though that they will revert some changes…no way they will let it go to live like this…

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    FrancisCrawford

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    So one approach (across multiple classes and builds, actually) is to decide:

    • Periodic Heavy Attacks are needed.
    • So put them in a regular rotation with skills that have an effective cooldown, and don’t necessarily bother even equipping a spammable.

    Here by “skills with an effective cooldown” I mean for example:

    • DoTs.
    • HoTs. (Not relevant to pure DPS builds, of course.)
    • Delayed-blast skills such as Curse (or Templars’ backlash).
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    FrancisCrawford

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    One other thing — if sustain is weak, Endless Fury looks more appealing in some trash fights. The magicka return may or may not look great if the alternative is getting magicka back from the last destro staff passive; the last time I looked at a skill bar to check it looked good, but not great enough to make the skill a must-equip. But the return sure looks great when compared to any cause of death that doesn’t trigger a major on-kill effect.

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    Aumann

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    My prediction:

    Heavy attack builds that already are good will just be godlike. You’ll see every sorc play a heavy attack build, just apply dots and pet, heavy attack and repeat.

    Infinite sustain, and that staff mastery CP passive is going to be insane.

    It’s going to be super freaking boring. Not to be a doomsayer, but if no additional changes happen, this is probably true.

    And francis, endless wrath won’t be more interesting, because in trash fights you only apply dots and heavy attack anyway as a sorc, so you don’t ever have sustain problems there.

    • This reply was modified 1 month ago by Profile photo of Aumann Aumann.

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Aumann said on April 21, 2017 :

    My prediction:

    Heavy attack builds that already are good will just be godlike. You’ll see every sorc play a heavy attack build, just apply dots and pet, heavy attack and repeat.

    Infinite sustain, and that staff mastery CP passive is going to be insane.

    It’s going to be super freaking boring. Not to be a doomsayer, but if no additional changes happen, this is probably true.

    And francis, endless wrath won’t be more interesting, because in trash fights you only apply dots and heavy attack anyway as a sorc, so you don’t ever have sustain problems there.

    Rightly or wrongly, I throw a lot of Elemental Rings in trash fights.

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    Aumann

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    The only thing you should be doing in trash fights as a magsorc is blockade, lightning, lightning heavy attack. And eventually execute.

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    katorga

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    Yes….i am 99% sure though that they will revert some changes…no way they will let it go to live like this…

    I bet they double down on the changes, and fully expect Sorc to get get wrecked in the next patch notes. The times that ZOS has reverted or changed direction are few and far between. But jeepers, talk about bad PR, they nerfed the crap out of everything except Sorc in the first patch notes which led to a frenzy of anti-sorc posts, which has to lead to some insane nerf just to save face.

    They also managed to create the “perception” if not the reality of nerfing everything to make Warden OP to drive expansion sales. Again, rotten PR.

    I’ve never seen a MMO company bungle things like this before.

     

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Aumann said on April 24, 2017 :

    The only thing you should be doing in trash fights as a magsorc is blockade, lightning, lightning heavy attack. And eventually execute.

    Maybe I’m misreading my parses, but Elemental Ring seems to give a lot more DPS than lightning heavy attacks, assuming the magicka is available, which for me it usually is. (I solo/duo a lot, so I get credit for all or most kills.)

    That’s against a single-target dummy, all issues of AoE geometry aside. Oh, wait … splash damage is a lot higher than initial-target damage. Yeah, that closes the gap substantially … OK, I’m flipping to the opinion that, at least as of Morrowind, Elemental Ring can safely be removed from my skill bar.

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    Aumann

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    Elemental ring has been removed from sorc bars a substantial amount of time ago haha :D

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    katorga

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    if sustain is weak, Endless Fury looks more appealing in some trash fights.

    Destro staff passive returns 3000+ magicka on a kill with a destro staff ability….no need for endless fury.

    Depending on the percentage of destro staff heavy attack damage to skill damage, if heavy attacks are over 50%:

    1. spell damage rules, with a 40:1 ratio to magicka for light and heavy attacks compared to 10.25:1 for skills.

    2. Elegance starts to shine with a flat 20% increase

    3. Slimecraw’s 8% might beat illambris with one element procing

    So far no nerfs for sorc or the regen sets that sorcs use, but I really don’t expect that to last.

     

     

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    FrancisCrawford

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    Aumann said on April 24, 2017 :

    Elemental ring has been removed from sorc bars a substantial amount of time ago haha

    Rightly or wrongly, I put it back on mine when it became ranged. This is either in dungeons where I’m doing a large fraction of total DPS (solo/duo), or in random overworld situations where it hardly matters what is or isn’t on my skill bars. :)

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