[Homestead] Invellous's Mageblade PVE Tank Guide

  1. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    bad timing on the quote :D  I edited to add my data in whilst you quoted me :D

    yes, footmans isn’t as good as it reads on the tooltip

    Nox

  2. Profile Photo
    Invellous

    Adept

    Total Posts: 169

    Khajiit Nightblade

    I will do some personal testing this weekend though I remain *extremely* skeptical that Woeler knows better than someone who *actually* works in the industry.

  3. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    Invellous said on December 28, 2016 :

    I will do some personal testing this weekend though I remain *extremely* skeptical that Woeler knows better than someone who *actually* works in the industry.

     

    I felt exactly the same way was you, hence testing it myself. I was a bit surprised…  it may just not be working quite as intended.

     

    Nox

     

  4. Member Avatar
    Surreal2024

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 5

    Man, oh man. That 38% cost increase to Strife and it’s morphs is gonna suck.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 2 weeks ago by Profile photo of Surreal2024 Surreal2024.
  5. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    yes, but it will not impact a nearly ‘maxed out’ nb tank too much, I might need to quaff a migacka pot now and again or be a little stricter on my siphoning timing. It will affect those ‘testing the waters’ or new players. Completely against Zenimax’s want to bring the high & low end closer together.

  6. Profile Photo
    mrowmrif2

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 4535

    Khajiit Nightblade

    @nox-uk and invell, im super stoled i just found a second shield of bloothorn and infused vampire cloak sword… sitting at 28k+ health, 30k mag and 14k stam both bars with 27-28k resistances.  Rkugamz + bloodthorn has so much sustain and healing im able to block cast everything and stand in fire as  a dunmer vamp.  Tanked HM CoA2 and BC2 today; in BC2 held 8 draegloths on last boss while the group dps main boss (low group dps…), and in CoA2 i just held both atronachs on ash titan and had no issues on horvantud and skoria.  Tank test good to go :)  i wouldnt mind offtanking trials but not main tank.

  7. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    I am utterly convinced there are no circumstances where vampires cloak set is better that plague doctors. You get 7k less health (which in reality works out close to 10k) by equipping vampires cloak but you get some spells damage and 8% damage redux that works out as 2.4k if you sit at 30k health. This means any shields you cast that scale of health are also bigger.

    have tried both now :P

    honestly never had a problem block casting anyway, just need a few drop pots every so often and being efficient with abilities.

     

    let me know how trials tanking goes :)  have been able to do all the above on my leeching/baharah build. have also lopped 20% off engine guardian solo in vet hard too beforte I got bored and rezzed the party. Also managed to take the boss of tempest isle (vet hard made) down solo after party died (from about 40%)

     

    tanking to the extreme!  but my dk is even more survivable…  he is ridiculous.

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of nox-uk nox-uk.
  8. Profile Photo
    mrowmrif2

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 4535

    Khajiit Nightblade

    nox-uk said on January 11, 2017 :

    I am utterly convinced there are no circumstances where vampires cloak set is better that plague doctors. You get 7k less health (which in reality works out close to 10k) by equipping vampires cloak but you get some spells damage and 8% damage redux that works out as 2.4k if you sit at 30k health. This means any shields you cast that scale of health are also bigger.

    have tried both now

    honestly never had a problem block casting anyway, just need a few drop pots every so often and being efficient with abilities.

    let me know how trials tanking goes have been able to do all the above on my leeching/baharah build.have also lopped 20% off engine guardian solo in vet hard too beforte I got bored and rezzed the party.Also managed to take the boss of tempest isle (vet hard made) down solo after party died (from about 40%)

    tanking to the extreme! but my dk is even more survivable… he is ridiculous.

    Yeah i just dont shield stack (ever), and have little going on that scales from health – so plague doctor is doing little for me.

    Remember… damage reductions apply BEFORE blocking and resistances.  Let us have fun with maths!

    10k damage hit => vampire’s cloak soaks 8% or 800 damage; plague doctor you take 10k damage but just have more health to soak it with.

    resistances of 27k… equates to 41% mitigation…

    blocking gives 50% base and another 28% from 1hs passives and defensive posture.  So 78% redux there.

    So… correct me if i am wrong.  37k health vs 28k health.

    10k damage

    – 28% (2,800… 800 damage reduction vampires cloak and 2,000 from say 20% redux from cp)

    – 41% remaining (2,952 from resistance)

    – 78% remaining (3,313 from blocking)

    total is 9,065 mitigated damage.

     

    take away that initial 8%…

    – 20% (2k)

    – 41% (3,280)

    – 78% (3,681)

    total is 8,961 mitigated damage.

     

    difference of roughly 100 damage.  Again, talking a 10,000 damage hit, which isnt that hard honestly, so scale that up by x3 for a 30k hit.. still not much.  So what does having the extra health do for me if i am not stacking shields?  I would rather have the spell damage on vc set for slightly more dps and group healing over the healing taken (which only affects my self healing siphoning).  Dont need more than 28-30k health otherwise.

    it is such a small difference tbh, but i kinda like damage reduction over health for a saptank.  Meh.

    ***forgot this guy was a vampire too… so below 50% health the massive damage reduction further stacks with the vampire’s cloak for even more reduced damage.  You could however argue that more health for a vamp means that damage reduction kicks in at a safer health total rather than having a low health total to get it going… again meh, im rarely under 50%.  I also forgot maim, which applies before everything, I believe.  When considering hard mode bosses that can hit very hard, either strategy is worth playing with (health vs damage reduction).

    I might consider tavas or dragonguard instead of vc set since all the slots i am using can be crafted (4 armor + weapons), and dragonguard is pretty cheap.  Might offer more benefit.

  9. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    mrowmrif2 said on January 11, 2017 :

    So what does having the extra health do for me if i am not stacking shields?

    two benefits i can see are it’s the difference between surviving a 35k hit and not & the extra second it gives your groups healer to move the cat off their keyboard :)

     

    mrowmrif2 said on January 11, 2017 :

    it is such a small difference tbh

    Which is why i’m not rating it highly. The suggested alternative is +7k health which is actually huge.

    The only real benefit benefit i can see from vampires cloak is the 8% less damage you don’t need to heal, and if we are looking at reducing the amount we have to heal, you may as well wear sanctuary set and turns that 8% into 16% (and give your group +12% healing in the process). The +spell damage a secondary for me, it’s not aiding me in tanking much (primary role).  Easily compensated for with a jewellery glyph

    I was looking at combat metrics results last night, I was a bit shocked to see how poorly siphoning attacks performed on a boss fight (blocking a lot) compared to the constitution passive…

    Nox

     

     

    • This reply was modified 2 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of nox-uk nox-uk.
  10. Member Avatar
    Surreal2024

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 5

    For those interested in trying out the Bloodthorn Touch set. You can actually get a reinforced shield and a defending sword of the set as quest rewards. This makes it so much easier since it’s a light armor set only.

    • This reply was modified 2 months ago by Profile photo of Surreal2024 Surreal2024.
  11. Member Avatar
    nox-uk

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 89

    Imperial Nightblade

    oooh, very handy to know :)

     

    Nox

  12. Profile Photo
    Extremeties

    Master

    Total Posts: 545

    This build looks incredibly fun and looks like it may be able to do a lot in the world.. i.e., grind, farm, etc quite well.   Making me want to switch from my NB healer to this!

     

    On a side note, what UI are you using?  I love the buff bars, the resource bars, etc.   Seems as if FTC is no longer being supported and out of date so I want to make the switch.

  13. Profile Photo
    Invellous

    Adept

    Total Posts: 169

    Khajiit Nightblade

    Hello everyone, sorry for the long absence! Before replying to anything I want to explain briefly the absence. The Elder Scrolls Online is a game that I was originally drawn to for it’s role-play potential. Role-play has always been the anchor that kept me playing the game with the gameplay itself being secondary, something more or less to play around with during role-play down times. In fact I did not level past the early twenties for literally months, well over six because of the collaborative writing of the tight knit role-play community I joined. Due to events that took place several months ago that drained all desire to role-play within the game my desire to play it at all has dwindled. So, I have been occupying my free time with other games such as ARK: Survival Evolved, Dark Souls 2 and 3, and Rainbow Six: Siege.

    The gameplay in general is fairly weak compared to other MMOs on the market in my opinion with builds lacking true variety, this is something that plagues DPS roles more so than tanking, to more specific Stamina builds. Gear choices are limited and not very interesting with required weapons for maximum DPS walled off behind solo content; Veteran Maelstrom Arena that serves more or less as something to conquer for bragging rights which I have beaten in as little as an hour’s time with over 400K scoring which put me in the top 20 – 30s for Nightblades three times. Worse still is the abysmal RNG loot tables that act as nothing more than a time wall to distract from limited content that makes gearing ‘optimally’ more stressful and time consuming than necessary.

    That said, I have enjoyed playing a underrated tank build that stands to challenge the ‘meta’ dragonknights and likely will continue to do so in the future. /end rant & explanation.

     

     

    Extremeties said on January 25, 2017 :

    This build looks incredibly fun and looks like it may be able to do a lot in the world.. i.e., grind, farm, etc quite well. Making me want to switch from my NB healer to this!

    On a side note, what UI are you using? I love the buff bars, the resource bars, etc. Seems as if FTC is no longer being supported and out of date so I want to make the switch.

     

    I came back to The Elder Scrolls Online to find my addons missing, even those stored in the program Minion, so I will have to reinstall them and get a screenshot of them. I would like to add a Addon section at a later date. Here is a brief list of the ones I used that come to mind.

     

    LUI Extended (General UI)

    S’rendarr – Aura, Buff & Debuff Tracker (Purpose in title)

    Combat Cloud (Configurable floating combat text.)

    Combat Metrics (Optional, more useful to DPS roles. Damage Meter and statistics for player analyse.)

    Untaunted (Taunt tracker, highly recommended.)

    Wykkyd Toolbar (Configurable toolbar to display important information; gold and soul stone count, gear durability, horse training timer, time, ping, FPS, ect…)

    AlphaGear Lives (Rapid gear and skill bar swapping tool. TESTING! The original author stopped updating and it has been picked up by a new programmer. )

     

     

    Surreal2024 said on January 5, 2017 :

    Man, oh man. That 38% cost increase to Strife and it’s morphs is gonna suck.

     

    I do not anticipate much of a change in flow. Any setup using Seducer or even Bloodthorne will be able to handle the change easily. Some DPS roles, specifically builds designed to tackle Veteran Maelstrom Arena may feel this nerf more keenly.

     

    Please feel free to post any questions you may have for me.

     

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of Invellous Invellous.
  14. Profile Photo
    Invellous

    Adept

    Total Posts: 169

    Khajiit Nightblade

    Minor Update

     

    I did some testing tonight to verify if nox-uk‘s claim that Youtuber Woeler was correct in that Block Cost is not calculated as simply as it seems, and they are both correct, it is not. I want to apology for presenting false information. I should have taken more to search for the correct formula and did not. I have deleted the Block Cost Explained section for now and will later update the guide OP.

     

    After playing around with Woeler’s Block Cost Calculator he has so graciously added to his website, which I will be linking at the bottom of this post along with a link to his channel, I have found my new personal aim for block cost, 545. Here is why… 545 is half of the base return from Siphoning Attacks return for Light and Heavy Attacks; 1090, and one fourth the return from it’s bonus return from other direct damaging skills; 2181, thus making all Light Attacks made while ‘light weaving’ with block canceling pay for the block used and restoring 545 Stamina. To reach this ‘milestone’ you may use one of the below methods.

     

     

    Shadow Ward without Defensive Posture

    55 Shadow Ward (16.5%)

    3x Legendary(Gold) Shield Enchantments (609)

    Cost Per Block: 545

    Allows the player to slot another skill to both the front and back bar in place of Defensive Posture and it’s morphs such as Inner Light or Stalwart Guard. This is more viable for Normal and Veteran Dungeons and even Normal Trials. Not recommended for melee heavy Veteran Trials.

    Shadow Ward with Defensive Posture
    40 Shadow Ward (13.2%)
    3x Legendary(Gold) Shield-Play Enchantments (609)

    Cost Per Block: 543

    A cheap alternative that makes use of Defensive Posture for increase block mitigation and utility via the morph Absorb Magic.

     

    Sturdy with Defensive Posture

    0 Shadow Ward

    4x Epic(Purple) Sturdy armor piece; belt, boots, gloves and shoulders. (14%)

    3x Legendary(Gold) Shield-Play Enchantments (609)

    The most adaptable option for those who have been following my guide allowing for greater investment into passive Magicka and or Stamina sustainability via Champion Points.

     

    Shadow Ward and Sturdy with Defensive Posture

    53 Shadow Ward (16%)

    4x Epic(Purple) Sturdy armor pieces; belt, boots, gloves, and shoulders (16%)

    2x Legendary(Gold) Shield-Play Enchantments (609)

    Cost Per Block = 545

     

    or

     

    44 Shadow Ward (14.1%)

    4x Legendary(Gold) Sturdy armor pieces; belt, boots, gloves, and shoulders (16.%)

    2x Legendary(Gold) Shield-Play Enchantments (406)

    Cost Per Block = 545

     

    Another adaptable option for those who have been following my guide.

     

    As you can tell from the above options that we are giving up two to three of our Reduce Spell Cost Enchantments. This I realize is not ideal, not with the supposed incoming increase to the magicka cost of the spell Strife and it’s morphs. Until Update 13 goes live and I have had time to play with my build and gear sets I can only say if you are running into magicka issues chug a potion and or defer to Seducer for a main set or Bloodthorn for a off-set as user mrowmrif2 has. I am already looking for a set of weapons, shields, and jewelry for myself. If you are selling any on PC you can contact me via my @name in ESO, @Invellous.

     

    A big thank you once more to both mrowmrif2 and  nox-uk for keeping up with the thread and presenting these issues so that I may address them accordingly. You guys are awesome!

     

    Woeler’s Website

    https://woeler.eu/index.php

     

    Woeler’s Block Cost Calculator

    https://woeler.eu/index.php?page=blockcost

     

    Woeler’s Youtube Channel

    https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCAVCXJDR4GjY1P-c2H30Tdg

     

    Give this awesome user some love; love and subscribe!

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of Invellous Invellous.
  15. Member Avatar
    GODPRODIGYSON12

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    What happened to kagranacs hope?  What about a resto staff?

  16. Profile Photo
    Invellous

    Adept

    Total Posts: 169

    Khajiit Nightblade

    GODPRODIGYSON12 said on January 30, 2017 :

    What happened to kagranacs hope? What about a resto staff?

     

    Kagrenac’s Hope is still a solid set, in my opinion, specifically for doing Normal and Veteran dungeons with randoms folks. Outside of that there are better options. It is also a good set if you are starting out if you can craft it.

    A Restoration Staff is not ideal as you lose a potential set bonus on your back, the ability to properly block, and it does not fit this build. Unlike Giliam’s that looks to out heal damage this builds aim to take on a traditional tank role.

    • This reply was modified 1 month, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of Invellous Invellous.
  17. Member Avatar
    GODPRODIGYSON12

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    Ohk an your thoughts on leeching ? . Considering proc sets wont crit next patch are baharas curse an leeching still a good combo ?

     

  18. Member Avatar
    GODPRODIGYSON12

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    Because i just finished making my nb , getting all skills an such. I want my nb tank to do decent damage in normal/Vet dungeons because of all the pugs out their

     

  19. Profile Photo
    Invellous

    Adept

    Total Posts: 169

    Khajiit Nightblade

    GODPRODIGYSON12 said on January 30, 2017 :

    Ohk an your thoughts on leeching ? . Considering proc sets wont crit next patch are baharas curse an leeching still a good combo ?

     

    As anyone who has followed this guide for any length of time will know I am not in favor of the Leeching Plate set due to several factors. One, it activates when YOU take damage. Which means that if you are using Blur or it’s morph Mirage then you are reducing the chance of five-piece triggering even further with an already low 8% chance to do so in the first place. It deals poison damage, not magic, which means it is not going to be affected by your main source of damage from Champion Points, Elemental Expert. The combined 8% Healing Taken is the only real saving grace aside from being far easier to acquire than Bahraha’s Curse which is clearly missing traits from it’s drop table.

     

    Bahraha’s Curse is still a solid set and will be due to a higher uptime that is not reduced by using Blur or it’s morphs. It deals magic damage versus poison. One major draw back previously was that it did not drop in Sturdy after One Tamriel but after going back to look at block cost reduction that is no longer a problem. Divines, Infused, or Reinforced are perfectly acceptable now as Sturdy can be bypassed entirely and still reach a target cost per block of 545. Aside from that it is hard if not impossible, once more due to missing traits, to find Healthy trait’d epic(purple) jewelry, and the set is more difficult to acquire in general.

     

    My suggestion is look to a good core set or main set; belt, boots, chest, gloves, and legs, such as Tava’s Favor for greater Warhorn uptime during boss fights, Seducer for better magicka sustainability, or even Kagrenac’s Hope for well rounded stats with faster resurrection speed in random dungeon groups. Then find a good secondary set; jewelry, shields, and weapons such as Bloodthorn, or if you do not have a Monster Set you could instead use a four piece set using the helmet, shoulders, shield, and weapon slot such as Magnus’ Gift or Seducer and look to Trinimac’s Valor or Willpower jewelry.

  20. Profile Photo
    mrowmrif2

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 4535

    Khajiit Nightblade

    GODPRODIGYSON12 said on January 30, 2017 :

    Ohk an your thoughts on leeching ? . Considering proc sets wont crit next patch are baharas curse an leeching still a good combo ?

    I think leeching is best used on a pug stam DK or templar tank, as invellous mentioned the damage is poison and scales on mighty.  so theoretically a stam dk could have 5 leeching (jewelry + 2 armor), monster set and then craft the remaining pieces of whatever 5 piece they want such as tavas, hist bark, armor master… or even just use dragonguard for the remaining pieces (good luck with weapon + shield in good traits).  for a NB saptank it is not quite as good, but still a decent option if you really want to use it.

    you could even try magicka furnace for sustain and some good set bonuses – worth a look.  however i think magicka furnace is again better on a mag DK tank spamming igneous shield for stamina rather than a NB saptank.

Reply To "[Homestead] Invellous's Mageblade PVE Tank Guide"

You are not currently logged in. You must log in before replying to this topic.