Introduction to PvE damage calculation (Horns of the Reach)

  1. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @Kuratius

    Using 2 Ilambris, 5 Julianos, 4 Infallible (Sharpened Inferno), Sharpened Maelstrom Inferno back bar gives a mean DPS of 40779.

    In comparison, 2 Ilambris, 5 Spinner, 4 Infallible (Precise Inferno), Precise Maelstrom Inferno back bar gives a mean DPS of 39536.

    I think I am missing the purpose of your question. If you have a precise maelstrom weapon, you could still use a sharpened staff on your front bar and go with Julianos.

  2. Member Avatar
    Norn

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Dunmer Templar

    Getting second Moondancer Sword is just taking much longer than I expected. I was wondering for a Magplar; which one of these setups can achieve the highest theoretical DPS.

    • 2x Groth 5x BSW 3x Moondancer 2x Sharpened Willpower Swords + Sharpened Moondancer Inferno Staff
    • 2x Groth 5x Moondancer 5x Julianos + Sharpened Lightning Julianos(Weapon Enchant) Staff
    • 2x Groth 5x Moondancer 5x Julianos + Sharpened Lightning VMA Staff

    I realize that VMA enchant is not that useful for DW attacks but considering we already have 5x Moondancer there isn’t really any better alternative than Julianos and VMA Staves.

     

    If it makes any difference for your simulation I personally use Shard and Wall on back bar, meaning it would be staff bar for testing purposes.

    Stamina Sorcerer
    Robust Target Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,865 (5,745,107 in 2:35.8s)

    Magicka Templar
    Target Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,370 (3,015,176 in 1:22.9s)

  3. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @Norn

    • 2x Groth 5x BSW 3x Moondancer 2x Sharpened Willpower Swords + Sharpened Moondancer Inferno Staff

    Mean DPS: 36333

    • 2x Groth 5x Moondancer 5x Julianos + Sharpened Lightning Julianos(Weapon Enchant) Staff

    Mean DPS: 37303

    • 2x Groth 5x Moondancer 5x Julianos + Sharpened Lightning VMA Staff

    Mean DPS: 37337

    For the Moondancer, it is assumed that you will attempt to synergise every 15 seconds and only synergise if you don’t have the Moondancer spell damage buff. It maybe possible for (2) to perform a bit better if you used a different enchant on your swords or your staff. In the simulations, I have the swords with Weapon Enchants.

  4. Member Avatar
    Norn

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Dunmer Templar

    As I suspected 5x Julianos turned out to be quite useful in the case of not having Moondancer Swords. I assume this is the second best theoretical setup if you don’t have them? Anyway I plan to craft some Julianos tomorrow and do some testing. Thanks for the help, much appreciated!

    Stamina Sorcerer
    Robust Target Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,865 (5,745,107 in 2:35.8s)

    Magicka Templar
    Target Argonian Skeleton – Unbuffed DPS: 36,370 (3,015,176 in 1:22.9s)

  5. Profile Photo
    tribunal4555

    Novice

    Total Posts: 24

    Hi Asayre,

    Thanks for the work, it’s provided amazing insight! Had a question about 3 piece IA vs Moondancer. I remember reading that you had tested this in previous thread and found MD superior; does this only apply when comparing gold MD to gold IA, or does a set of purple or blue moondancer still outperform gold IA? Not at the point where I can farm vet maw, so wondering what I should use in the meantime. Cheers!

    Argonian TankDK || Khajit StamBlade || Redguard StamDK || Redguard StamSorc || Dunmer MagDK || Dunmer MagSorc || Altmer MagPlar || Altmer MagBlade

  6. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @tribunal4555, I found that Moondancer and Infallible are really close. From the table below which summarises the results of DPS simulation, with Moondancer (4) I estimate a mean DPS of 42082 while with Infallible (6) I estimate a mean DPS of 41981. This is with gold jewelry. I would expect similar’ish result for purple or blue. For this, I would say that there is no significant difference as the standard error of the mean is larger than the difference between these two means. So just use whichever you have.

    • This reply was modified 4 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of Asayre Asayre.
  7. Profile Photo
    tribunal4555

    Novice

    Total Posts: 24

    Wonderful, thank you!

    Argonian TankDK || Khajit StamBlade || Redguard StamDK || Redguard StamSorc || Dunmer MagDK || Dunmer MagSorc || Altmer MagPlar || Altmer MagBlade

  8. Member Avatar
    Kreditor

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 4

    @Asyre

    1) when  using scathing mage: is infallibe aether better than moondancer due to higher proc Chance through higher crit?

    2) on a nightblade: will scathing surpass burning due to the proc of twisting path?

    3) how is the mean damage of 5 scathing 3 willpower and 3 moondancer?

    4) is necropotence eligible for Raids or are pets/shadows still stealing buffs?

    5) if 4 eligible: how does necropotence do in comparison to bsw or scathing?

    Thank you very much

    Kind regards

     

     

  9. Member Avatar
    Re4MasTeR

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 2

    Hi I don’t see the best cp setup for running based on your information the most DD possible

    all divines gear, sharp weapons,

    is 100 ele expert, 46 thaum, 46 spell crit, 8 erosion best for magicka sorc pet builds and non pet builds?

    thanks for all your wealth of information you presented to us.

    -Re4

  10. Member Avatar
    ReXwithaT

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 74

    @asayre with your lightning staff simulation is it better slot clench, but not use it or is it actually an increase to use it? In my testing I’m getting close to where I am with dual wield and not past it. Are the skills used in that order specifically?

  11. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @Kreditor

    1. It is not discernible from my simulations. With 2x Molag Kena, 5x Scathing Mage, 3 Moondancer and a Sharpened Inferno Moondancer on the front bar and a Sharpened Inferno Maelstrom on the back bar, I predict a mean DPS of 39485 (935). Swapping out the Moondancer for Infallible results in a mean DPS of 39465 (788).

    2. No, even with Twisting Path counting as direct damage Scathing Mage does not do better than Burning Spellweave in my simulations. Consider the gear setup in (1), replacing Scathing Mage with Burning Spellweave results in a predicted DPS of 40598 (668). I haven’t tried Scathing Mage on a Nightblade for a while so I’m not a 100% sure if my simulation is accurate but it predicts a Scathing Mage uptime of 71% . Is this reasonable from your experience?

    3. The mean DPS of 5x Scathing, 3 Willpower, 3 Infallible is 35549. The loss of a monster helmet bonus and the Maelstrom enchant seems quite detrimental. This DPS simulation might be on the low side since I am using two weapon damage enchants on the Infallible staves when really one of them should be a flame damage enchant.

    4. Pets still seem to take buffs and nightblade pets do not seem to be wanted in trials. Sorc pets appear to do much more damage and only count as one pet (I assume you’ll be using Dark Shades if you were going with a magicka nightblade build)

    @Re4MasTeR, you should use the link below to aid in your CP optimisation

    http://asayre.mygamesonline.org/CPOptimisation/CPOptimisation.html#

    @RexwithaT, if you’re testing against a combat dummy then there is no need to use shock clench, I was trying to see if I could get better AoE dps. In order to surpass dual wield you will need to have good weaving. From memory, if you are around 50% weave accuracy you will get similar DPS to dual wield. A quick way to determine your weave accuracy is to divide the number of light attacks by the total fight time. Templars will generally have a lower weave accuracy since Puncturing Sweep and Radiant Oppression are channels that are longer than the global cooldown.

  12. Member Avatar
    ReXwithaT

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 74

    @Asayre using shock clench is getting me higher DPS on the dummy, but I’ve been hearing of people parsing 39k-40k with dual wield.

    Between 5 julianos/5 md dual wield

    5 bsw / 5 md dual wield

    5 julianos / 4 md with staff

    Which should be the highest DPS?

  13. Member Avatar
    Altyrann

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 77

    @Asayre – thanks for a really useful resource. I have pointed my guild to your introduction as a great starting point to understand how damage calculation works.

    On a specific comparison, I was wondering what difference you see for a Magplar between 5 BSW, 5 MD and 2 Grothdarr versus 5 BSW, 5 IA and 2 Grothdarr once you factor in the time to synergise. This is something I was having trouble calculating in a (much simpler!) model.

    Thanks

  14. Profile Photo
    Massacor

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 3

    Orc Dragonknight

    Wow huge work, thanks a lot for that.

    Massacor – Member of World in Flame guild, PVP focused.

    Characters :

    Tyrant M Nocturne : Stamblade – Aldmeri

    Ashbring M Nocturne : Magsorc – Aldmeri

    Lionheart M Nocturne : Magplar – Aldmeri

    Genghis the Greater : StamDK – DC                           

  15. Member Avatar
    HelpFromAbove

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 8

    Altmer Sorcerer

    I’m new here. Been catching myself up on your amazing work. Just getting back to playing ESO after a ~1 year hiatus. I would like to re-optimize my Sorc for modern times. Is there a place where you have cataloged and condensed your findings into some sort of recommendation for “best” (or as close to it as you have yet found) DPS Sorc build (point allocations/armor/skills/etc)? I read through your initial post here but I did not see any overt listing of a suggested skill rotation (maybe I just missed it?). In any case, this is some amazing analysis. Thanks!

  16. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @ReXwithaT, Ya my templar simulations seem to be a bit below what is achievable. I’m not sure why there is yet. My first suspect is that for some reason my current magicka tends to be lower than expected so I’ll have to look at why that is the case and it’s impact on Radiant Oppression. I reviewed damage calculation and got reasonably accurate results with simulation and in game test except for Burning Light which is out by 0.06% (~20). I’ll have to do further test to see why my simulations are providing lower numbers though. But at the moment, my simulations seem to suggest

    5 julianos / 4 md with staff > 5 bsw / 5 md dual wield > 5 julianos/5 md dual wield

    @Altyrann, for my Moondancer simulations, I typically allow a synergy event every 15s and this synergy is used if you don’t have the Shadow Blessing (Moondancer Spell Damage buff). This typically results in a Shadow Blessing Uptime of ~63%. In this case, I estimate around 36966 for Infallible Aether and 38291 for Moondancer.

    @HelpFromAbove, welcome back to the game! I think Yolo-Wizard has an excellent guide that suits your needs.

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-3-the-yolo-wizard-v2-non-overload-pve-dps-build-vet-mol-approved/

  17. Member Avatar
    kwin

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 56

    Asayre said on February 27, 2017 :

    I’ve updated the sorcerer calculations because there was a simulation error that resulted in all DPS simulations to be overestimated by around 2k. The error was because sometimes x-x ~ 1e-15 which leads to some abilities triggering twice. I had previously rounded most of these into 0 but I forgot to in one particular section causing an overestimate in the DPS.

    @shredguitargod, I have simulated using Volatile Familiar in place of Inner Light and the results are promising. With 2 Ilambris, 5 Necropotence, 3/4 Moondancer and a Maelstrom staff on the backbar the mean DPS is 42775 compared to 42082 with the usual no pet rotation (2 Ilambris, 5 Necropotence, 3/4 Moondancer, Maelstrom backbar).

    Edit: As an aside it was interesting to note that 2 Ilambris, 5 BSW, 3/4 Moondancer, Maelstrom backbar performs better with a pet build than 5 piece Necropotence. The mean DPS with a pet build with BSW is 43234. My initial inspection of the simulation results suggest that this is mainly caused by LAs scaling more strong off spell damage than abilities.
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    This reply was modified 3 weeks, 2 days ago by Asayre.

     

    Hello Asayre,

    Again huge fan for all your work on this matter as a teso addict I really appreciated what you did :)

    Maybe would it be relevant for your comparaison with pet build to add 2 setup: necro with deadric prey and BSW with deadric prey

    because if true that BSW seems a bit ahead to necro due to light attack scaling more with spelldamage in the other hand pet are scaling to max magica and buffing pet attack might change the outcome? (I expect necro will be ahead from BSW then)

     

    Note: I am aware that deadric prey is lackbuster in case you have to deactivate your pet but in case you are focusing on some specific fights (vMOL?) this limitation might no be relevant

    • This reply was modified 4 months ago by Profile photo of kwin kwin.
  18. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @kwin

    If you are using a pet Daedric Prey is better than Haunting Curse however BSW is still better than Necropotence. With a lower LA weave accuracy, necropotence should be comparable or even better but as you pointed out if your pet accidentally dies in a fight things go bad for Necropotence. Also out of curiousity I checked if it was worth it to use Greater Storm Atronach and it turns out no. A quick summary of my simulated DPS is provided below.

  19. Member Avatar
    Altyrann

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 77

    Asayre said on March 23, 2017 :

    @ReXwithaT, Ya my templar simulations seem to be a bit below what is achievable. I’m not sure why there is yet. My first suspect is that for some reason my current magicka tends to be lower than expected so I’ll have to look at why that is the case and it’s impact on Radiant Oppression. I reviewed damage calculation and got reasonably accurate results with simulation and in game test except for Burning Light which is out by 0.06% (~20). I’ll have to do further test to see why my simulations are providing lower numbers though. But at the moment, my simulations seem to suggest

    5 julianos / 4 md with staff >5 bsw / 5 md dual wield >5 julianos/5 md dual wield

    @Altyrann, for my Moondancer simulations, I typically allow a synergy event every 15s and this synergy is used if you don’t have theShadow Blessing (Moondancer Spell Damage buff).This typically results in a Shadow Blessing Uptime of ~63%. In this case, I estimate around 36966 for Infallible Aether and 38291 for Moondancer.

    @HelpFromAbove, welcome back to the game! I think Yolo-Wizard has an excellent guide that suits your needs.

    http://tamrielfoundry.com/topic/2-3-the-yolo-wizard-v2-non-overload-pve-dps-build-vet-mol-approved/

    @Asayre thanks for the reply. Just to follow up, what does your simulation assume in terms of time to use a synergy and the damage done? I am trying to work out what the cost of keeping the MD buff is.

  20. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 615

    Breton Sorcerer

    @Altyrann, the synergy does no damage, it restores magicka and stamina (Undaunted Commant) and a synergy attempt its attempted every 15 seconds unless you already have the Shadow Blessing in which case it is skipped (and a new synergy is tried in another 15 seconds). There is also no time penalty for activating a synergy. By cost of keeping the MD buff do you mean the time to activate a synergy and the time to divert your attention to determine if it is worth synergising?

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