Introduction to PvE damage calculation (Horns of the Reach)

  1. Member Avatar
    Latin

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 1195

    Imperial

    @FrancisCrawford

    It might be more informative to other users to include a screenshot of the Combat Metrics parse, so that we can get a better picture of what is going on. This will help address your query concisely or to determine effectively what the potential bug is.

    e pluribus unum

  2. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    @FrancisCrawford how about just light attacking a monster as fast as you can and see your Berserker uptime?

  3. Member Avatar
    Deuteriumhydroxid

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    Altmer Sorcerer

    One Question: what are “Relevant Champion Points” (Regarding Stat pool)

    Let’s say someone has 784 CP. Are relevant Champion points then 600 Cp or 200 Cp?

  4. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    @Deuteriumhydroxid red champion points will increase your health CPI, blue champion points will increase your magicka CPI and green champion points will increase your stamina CPI. If you have 784 CP then it will be 200 for each.

    • This reply was modified 10 months, 1 week ago by Profile photo of Asayre Asayre.
  5. Member Avatar
    LiquidPony

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 27

    @Asayre

    Lots of misinformation on a topic related to Maelstrom staves; hoping you can clarify.

    Given a 3 x IA/Moondancer, 2 x Illambris, 5 x BSW setup with a Sharpened lightning front bar (either IA/Moondancer or random), is it preferable to run a non-Sharpened (say, Precise or Nirnhoned) Maelstrom inferno staff on the back bar, or a random Sharpened inferno staff?

    My understanding of penetration calculation is that bar-swapping off of Blockade means that we’re only getting the benefit of Sharpened on the back bar on Liquid Lightning (and perhaps Mage’s Wrath).

    I’m sure this has been asked before, but it’s hard to find a definitive answer.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by Profile photo of LiquidPony LiquidPony.
  6. Member Avatar
    Latin

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 1195

    Imperial

    @LiquidPony

    Sharpened on the backbar is still preferable – you can refer to the section on Weapon Traits – the point where precise outperforms sharpened is when the residual resistance of the target is 1700 or lower.

    I might be missing something, can you elaborate on your rationale for having a non-sharpened staff on the backbar with Liquid Lightning and Mage’s Wrath? Considering that penetration stat snapshots off the active bar when the first damage tick occurs, even if the only skill you have on the backbar is Liquid Lightning, it still contributes 12-17% of my single target damage on sorc; to not have sharpened for that seems odd.

    e pluribus unum

  7. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    @LiquidPony

    For most skills, penetration is dynamically calculated which is to say that it depends on your current stats and current bar. So you’re right to say that having a Sharpened ony our back bar will only affect Blockade, Liquid Lightning and Mage’s Wrath when you’re on your back bar. Penetration snap shots only off certain abilities but it is unlikely you will use them. Of the commonly used magicka based abilities, only Force Clench and Crippling Grasp are static.

    Anyway to answer your question, using a precise maelstrom staff on your back bar as opposed to a sharpened (assuming 2 Ilambris, 5 Julianos, 3 Moondancer) is about a 2% DPS loss (mean = 41227, SD = 1125) with precise as compared to sharpened ( mean = 42167, SD = 1341 ). If you use non-set sharpened staff it decreases by about 4% (mean = 40651). I think the calculated difference is appropriate as the majority of the damage difference should be from the added LA damage of having a Maelstrom staff. With perfect weaving you would expect your LAs to be boosted by 1341 * Other (the Maelstrom effect is not increased by CP.) The difference between the means I calculated is 1516 so it’s roughly in that ballpark. That said, not many people will be weaving all the time so while theoretically precise maelstrom on the backbar is better than non-set sharpened, if you are only hitting your Maelstrom buffed weaves like half the time they are comparable.

    Edit: there might a be of overestimation of DPS for using a precise Maelstrom on the back bar because I allow practically zero second bar swaps so you are only typically on your back bar for exactly 2 seconds to refresh Blockade and Liquid Lightning, moreover since bar swaps occur before damage like only 2 DoT tick occurs on the back bar.

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by Profile photo of Asayre Asayre.
  8. Member Avatar
    LiquidPony

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 27

    @Latin

    The question was whether a non-set Sharpened inferno  staff would be preferable to a non-Sharpened Maelstrom inferno staff on the back bar.

    For those of us that don’t have IA/Moondancer/Maelstrom staves in Sharpened. I run 3 x IA, 2 x Illambris, 5 x BSW and a random Sharpened lightning on the front bar. On the back, I can choose between a Precise or Nirnhoned Maelstrom inferno or use another random Sharpened inferno.

    That is, does the extra damage from Sharpened on Liquid Lightning (and Mage’s Wrath where applicable) outperform the extra damage from the Maelstrom enchantment on light attacks?

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by Profile photo of LiquidPony LiquidPony.
  9. Member Avatar
    LiquidPony

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 27

    @Asayre

    Thank you. I was unable to definitively tell the difference in Bloodspawn tests. I know my LA rate is pretty poor, so that seems to line up with what you’ve calculated.

    Appreciate the response and all the work you’ve done.

  10. Member Avatar
    RaiseTheGlass1

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 57

    Do you recommend putting 75 points into Thaumaturge for a Sorcerer during the Homestead patch, if healers are keeping up 100% uptime on Blockades of Shock for off-balance? If so, how should I go about configuring my CP? I couldn’t figure out how to use your worksheet to answer that question.

  11. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    You’ll want to use the website and go to the Advanced tab and set the minimum CP limit of Thaumathurge to 75. Anyway, to answer your question it depends on how far away you are from putting 75 CP into Thaumathurge. If I assume 40% of my damage is from DoT and I’m just getting Major Breach, then my CP optimiser says to put 100 in Elemental Expert, 46 in Spell Erosion, 42 in Elfborn and 12 in Thaumathurge. The optimisation function output is 1.793. If you open the developer console on my CP optimisation webpage you can see the optimisation function output. If I force it to put 75 points into Thaumathurge it then suggest 100 in Elemental Expert, 5 in Spell Erosion, 22 in Elfborn with an optimisation function output of 1.745. So you’ll be losing about 3% damage. This suggest that you need your target to be off-balance for at least a third of the time, possibly higher since Exploiter is presumably additive with other forms of damage done. Combat Metrics can be used to determine the off-balance time.

    Edit: Link

    • This reply was modified 10 months ago by Profile photo of Asayre Asayre.
  12. Member Avatar
    RaiseTheGlass1

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 57

    Thanks, that’s super helpful. I do think 100 + 22 + 5 + 75 is 202 tho :) My understanding is that off-balance does have a very high uptime, but I’m a console player and thus would need to defer to my betters!

  13. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    Haha I can’t copy and paste properly. It should have been 98 in Elemental Expert, 5 in Spell Erosion, 22 in Elfborn. It’s not too hard to get 30% off balance with just Blockade of Storms so if you have a few sorcs in there for good measure you should be good to go.

  14. Member Avatar
    FrancisCrawford

    Hero

    Total Posts: 3031

    Breton Sorcerer

    Continuing the discussion of Beserker/Weapon Power enchantment from the other thread, I just ran some experiments on a target dummy.

    CombatMetrics had Beserker uptime in the 40-60% range, and S’renndar frequently showed a Beserker buff:

    • When I spammed light attacks from a bow with the Weapon Damage enchantment.
    • When I spammed light attacks in DW, with the mainhand having a Weapon Damage enchantment.

    CombatMetrics had no Beserker uptime, and S’renndar never showed a Beserker buff when, with the same weapons as before:

    • I spammed Poison Arrow, except for renewing Siphoning Attacks on cooldown.
    • I spammed Bloodthirst, except for renewing Siphoning Attacks on cooldown.

     

    Also:

    • Spamming lightning staff light attacks got Beserker noted by both add-ons, just as in the stamina examples above.
    • Do did spamming heavy attacks.
    • Spamming Crushing Shock got zero acknowledgement of Beserker, just as in the stamina examples above.
  15. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    So are you not light attacking often which is that cause of your low Berserker uptime?

  16. Member Avatar
    FrancisCrawford

    Hero

    Total Posts: 3031

    Breton Sorcerer

    Asayre said on February 17, 2017 :

    So are you not light attacking often which is that cause of your low Berserker uptime?

    That’s the theory. Generally, my logs with low light attack damage and low Berserker uptime are the same. However, some people think that’s nonsense, because using skills also procs Berserker. So I’ve been investigating that claim. So far, all my evidence comes down on the side of skills NOT proccing Berserker.

    The one thing I haven’t done yet is take two weapons that are identical except for one having a Weapon/Spell damage enchantment, spamming a skill at the test dummy, and seeing whether the damage per hit appears to be different. My plan for trying it is to go naked, to be sure that other buffs (food, CP, passives) are identical, and to be careful around the fact that crit rates can vary from test to test. Is there anything else I should watch out for when testing?

  17. Profile Photo
    decay

    Expert

    Total Posts: 317

    Dunmer Templar

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I’m reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

    • This reply was modified 9 months, 3 weeks ago by Profile photo of decay decay.
  18. Profile Photo
    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1975

    Khajiit Templar

    decay said on February 19, 2017 :

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I’m reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

    Is there a way to track offbalance uptime? I see the offbalance # in debuffs out but it gives a very small number such as 4 or 5 or 8. Im assuming that this indicates when the target becomes offbalance, but it would be great if there was a % indicator tracking its uptime, since it can be taken off by heavy/medium weaves as well as Power Lashes….

  19. Member Avatar
    Asayre

    Master

    Total Posts: 632

    Breton Sorcerer

    @FrancisCrawford, I think your testing is right. Enchantment proc of light attacks

    @decay, Thanks! It’s a really great addon and I can’t ask for much more. Most of the things I calculate are based on things I see in Combat Metrics. I can’t really think of any additional features that I need right now.

  20. Profile Photo
    decay

    Expert

    Total Posts: 317

    Dunmer Templar

    Nosferatuzod said on February 19, 2017 :

    decay said on February 19, 2017 :

    @Asayre

    Wow this is awesome !

    Let me know if there is anything missing in Combat Metrics. I’m reworking it currently so its a good chance to add more things.

    Is there a way to track offbalance uptime? I see the offbalance # in debuffs out but it gives a very small number such as 4 or 5 or 8. Im assuming that this indicates when the target becomes offbalance, but it would be great if there was a % indicator tracking its uptime, since it can be taken off by heavy/medium weaves as well as Power Lashes….

    True I want this too, I have to investigate :).

     

Reply To "Introduction to PvE damage calculation (Horns of the Reach)"

You are not currently logged in. You must log in before replying to this topic.