Infallible Infinite Wizard (Magsorc Heavy Attack Build) vHoF HM approved

  1. Member Avatar
    korvyr

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    Well it’s either that or dying, I suppose — max vitality is much better. Choose when to use the sigils.

     

    This build is for surviving and entry VMA, I think. It’s a solid “Bread and Butter” way to do VMA well.

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Masel92: I am playing both a DK heavy build and something resembling this. The last two days, I have been toying around with this combination:

    • 5 x Necro (sharpened Staff)
    • 5 x Netch’s Touch
    • 1 x Kena

    Of all the combinations of Spinner/Necro/Elegance/Infallible I have tried so far, this one is the hardest hitting. My rotation is:

    • Back Back (Lightning): Surge -> LA -> Boundless Storm -> Swap
    • Front Bar (lightning) HA -> Wall -> HA -> Liquid -> HA -> Pet .. repeat x2 – then cancel the last pet and repeat on back bar.

    Without elemental drain and a sloppy rotation I am pulling 25K DPS on a target dummy (Xbox). With the other combination – I struggled to get 23K.

    I can confirm that Netch’s touch buffs these skills:

    • The damage of both pets (both the damage ticks and the volatile pulse)
    • Liquid
    • Thunderous Rage
    • Wall of Element (which is strange, because isn’t that supposed to be Magic damage?)
    • Hurricane
    • EVERY tick of the Lightning Staff heavy (acting very much like IA used to do)

    The damage netch provides also scales with major sorcery. There was some discussion that it wouldn’t – but after testing I can confirm it does.

    It looks like Netch is basically BSW but for lightning sorcs. And with the sustain nerfs – Heavy attack are the new spammable.

    Next up: Test Sword Singer heavy attack build with Dual Wield on Both bars on a stam sorc.

  3. Member Avatar
    Hundor

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 25

    tkviking2 said on April 24, 2017 :

    Masel92: I am playing both a DK heavy build and something resembling this. The last two days, I have been toying around with this combination:

    • 5 x Necro (sharpened Staff)
    • 5 x Netch’s Touch
    • 1 x Kena

    Of all the combinations of Spinner/Necro/Elegance/Infallible I have tried so far, this one is the hardest hitting. My rotation is:

    • Back Back (Lightning): Surge -> LA -> Boundless Storm -> Swap
    • Front Bar (lightning) HA -> Wall -> HA -> Liquid -> HA -> Pet .. repeat x2 – thencancel the last pet and repeat on back bar.

    Without elemental drain and a sloppy rotation I am pulling 25K DPS on a target dummy (Xbox). With the other combination – I struggled to get 23K.

    I can confirm that Netch’s touch buffs these skills:

    • The damage of both pets (both thedamage ticks and the volatile pulse)
    • Liquid
    • Thunderous Rage
    • Wall of Element(which is strange, because isn’t that supposed to be Magic damage?)
    • Hurricane
    • EVERY tick of the Lightning Staff heavy (acting very much like IA used to do)

    The damage netch provides also scales with major sorcery. There was some discussion that it wouldn’t – but after testing I can confirm it does.

    It looks like Netch is basically BSW but for lightning sorcs. And with the sustain nerfs – Heavy attack are the new spammable.

    This is interesting, thank you for the info.

    From previous posts also, I’m now busy trying to decide which combination to use for the non-vMA staff build to farm the better gear with.

    5x Necro 5x Elegance 1x monster
    5x Necro 3x Willpower 2x monster
    5x Necro 5x Netch’s Touch 1x Kena

  4. Member Avatar
    boom782

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 93

    Question…I have so far received nirnhoned and precise inferno as well as sharpened ice from maelstrom. Any worth using?

     

     

     

     

     

     

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Masel92 : I am curious about the DPS you are capable of pulling with this build. Yesterday, I was able to hit 28K DPS with 5 x Necro + 5 x Netch + 1 Kena. That just not up there with the Force Pulse + Frag spammers – but fine for running Dungeons.

    I notice that even now, it can be tricky for Mag Sorcs to sustain constant LA + Force Pulse – with Morrowind, it will probably be impossible. Because of this – I have been looking for a Sorc build that pulls 35K DPS without frags + force pulse.

    Taking all your ideas from your heavy attack builds and putting them together, how about this (I need to farm some more gear to test):

    • 4 x Netch on Armour
    • 1 x UI Chest Piece
    • 2 x Sharpened UI Sword
    • 2 x Monster set (Slimeclaw? – since we are not able to fire proc Ilambris)
    • 1 x Netch Jewel
    • 2 x UI Jewels
    • 1 x Lightning Maelstrom

    Lightning Bar:

    • 2 x Pet
    • Bound Armour
    • Destructive Clench
    • Inner Light
    • Thunderous Rage

    Dual Wield Bar:

    • 2 x Pet
    • Bound Armour
    • Liquid Lightning
    • Wall of Elements
    • Overload (Buffed by both Netch and UI)

    Overload (execute bar):

    • 2 x Pet
    • Bound Armour
    • Inner Light
    • Mages Wrath

    Rotation (inspired by your DK build):

    Back Back: Liquid > Block Cancel > Wall > Cancel

    Front Bar: HA > Pet Pulse > HA > Clench > 1/2 HA -> Swap

    …Repeat…

    Execute: (Wrath > LA) x 3 + Pet Pulse -> repeat

    All our attacks will be buffed by Netch and we have a ton of passive damage from the pets. Overload executes should hit like a truck with this setup.

    Think it would be worth a shot? I need to find a quiet time to do Maelstrom and get that staff (I keep getting pulled into groups)

  6. Profile Photo
    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Hundor said on April 24, 2017 :

    5x Necro 5x Elegance 1x monster
    5x Necro 3x Willpower 2x monster
    5x Necro 5x Netch’s Touch 1x Kena

    How about:

    5 x Necro + 3 Willpower + 3 Infallible Aether

    Sharpened Willpower staves should be reasonably easy to farm or buy. I have not tested it yet, but could be interesting. Might even try to swap out Necro with Netch (depending on where the majority of your damage comes from)

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    Masel92

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Altmer Dragonknight

    Best Dummy Damage I had was about 38k with ele drain. The setup was 5 Necropotence, 4 Moondancer with a sharpened lightning and a vMA lightning staff on the back bar.

     

    Skill setup was the one that I used in the buildguide, except that I replaced ward with daedric prey. no modifications other than that.
    I will test the UI setup on the sorc once I’m back home (in about a week) but keep in mind that you can’t put wall of elements on the dual wield bar :D
    5 Necropotence, 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer/Aether should work great too, best would be to use a Willpower Sharpened Lightning staff.
    I didn’t know that Netch buffed pet damage too, as it should only scale with your max magicka magicka, that is weird….

  8. Profile Photo
    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Masel92 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Skill setup was the one that I used in the buildguide, except that I replaced ward with daedric prey. no modifications other than that.
    I will test the UI setup on the sorc once I’m back home (in about a week) but keep in mind that you can’t put wall of elements on the dual wield bar
    5 Necropotence, 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer/Aether should work great too, best would be to use a Willpower Sharpened Lightning staff.
    I didn’t know that Netch buffed pet damage too, as it should only scale with your max magicka magicka, that is weird….

    Duh! Well, I guess wall would have to go the front bar and we can then pet pulse on the back bar, which does not leave space for Inner Light (maybe OK – or maybe dual bar Inner light and drop Bound Armour?)

    Netch states that it boosts ALL lightning damage you do. And both pets do lightning. I was quite happy to see it worked – which makes Netch comparable with Necro if you have both pets out. The nice thing about Netch is that it helps with heavy attacks too.

    Do you know if the pet damage is also boosted by your total spell damage and by Minor Slayer?

     

  9. Profile Photo
    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Masel92 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Best Dummy Damage I had was about 38k with ele drain. The setup was 5 Necropotence, 4 Moondancer with a sharpened lightning and a vMA lightning staff on the back bar.

    What rotation did you use for that parse? I have not been able to get those numbers. If I could hit 38K without Pulse+Frag – I would be a very happy raider.

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1964

    Khajiit Templar

    tkviking2 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Masel92 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Skill setup was the one that I used in the buildguide, except that I replaced ward with daedric prey. no modifications other than that.
    I will test the UI setup on the sorc once I’m back home (in about a week) but keep in mind that you can’t put wall of elements on the dual wield bar
    5 Necropotence, 3 Willpower and 3 Moondancer/Aether should work great too, best would be to use a Willpower Sharpened Lightning staff.
    I didn’t know that Netch buffed pet damage too, as it should only scale with your max magicka magicka, that is weird….

    Duh! Well, I guess wall would have to go the front bar and we can then pet pulse on the back bar, which does not leave space for Inner Light (maybe OK – or maybe dual bar Inner light and drop Bound Armour?)

    Netch states that it boosts ALL lightning damage you do. And both pets do lightning. I was quite happy to see it worked – which makes Netch comparable with Necro if you have both pets out. The nice thing about Netch is that it helps with heavy attacks too.

    Do you know if the pet damage is also boosted by your total spell damage and by Minor Slayer?

    Just fyi, Necro is better than Netch. I used warhorn and spell pots to compare the damage from both sets and im getting around 2% more damage to all skills except familiar and heavy attack by wearing necro over netch. Familiar did around 18% more with nexro, but Heavy attack did around 6% less…overall necro wins, especially when you factor in the greater pool…

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    Just fyi, Necro is better than Netch. I used warhorn and spell pots to compare the damage from both sets and im getting around 2% more damage to all skills except familiar and heavy attack by wearing necro over netch. Familiar did around 18% more with nexro, but Heavy attack did around 6% less…overall necro wins, especially when you factor in the greater pool…

    Not challenging that under the normal sorc spamming Pulse+Frags – the higher spell pool wins. But with a heavy attack build (where the majority of damage comes from heavies) – how does it compare? Would love to see your measurements – from my own tests: Liquid + Wall are about the same on Netch and Necro. The Volatile pulse is larger with Necro and the Twilight hits harder too (as expected), but heavy is better with Netch.

    I guess the premise I am trying to challenge is that the only way to top out on DPS is to use pulse+frag. Trying to figure out how close you can get with heavy attacks (in preparation for Morrowind)

    UPDATE: To add context of how I did the test:

    • Strip down naked
    • Wear 5 Necro and use each skill. Measure the lowest damage (i.e. non crit)
    • Wear 5 Netch and do the same as above
    • Confirm that Major Sorcery boosts Netch (it does)

    Working from the assumption that if my base damage is higher on one or the other (and neither have a crit bonus) – then the base damage remains higher under warhorns / pots / minor force etc…

    • This reply was modified 5 months ago by Profile photo of tkviking2 tkviking2.
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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1964

    Khajiit Templar

    tkviking2 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    Just fyi, Necro is better than Netch. I used warhorn and spell pots to compare the damage from both sets and im getting around 2% more damage to all skills except familiar and heavy attack by wearing necro over netch. Familiar did around 18% more with nexro, but Heavy attack did around 6% less…overall necro wins, especially when you factor in the greater pool…

    Not challenging that under the normal sorc spamming Pulse+Frags – the higher spell pool wins. But with a heavy attack build (where the majority of damage comes from heavies) – how does it compare? Would love to see your measurements – from my own tests: Liquid + Wall are about the same on Netch and Necro. The Volatile pulse is larger with Necro and the Twilight hits harder too (as expected), but heavy is better with Netch.

    I guess the premise I am trying to challenge is that the only way to top out on DPS is to use pulse+frag. Trying to figure out how close you can get with heavy attacks (in preparation for Morrowind)

    No no, I think you misunderstand. On the PTS the old meta is currrently unsustainable so I use a Heavy Attack build, except the problem is most of the build deals with non heavy attack damage. Rotation is: LL>Blockade>Familiar>Prey>Shock Clecnch>Heavy Attack. You only pull off around 1.5-1.75 full heavy attacks as part of this rotation, so the gain in heavy attack damage from netch is outweighed by Necro by a large margin…

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    No no, I think you misunderstand. On the PTS the old meta is currrently unsustainable so I use a Heavy Attack build, except the problem is most of the build deals with non heavy attack damage. Rotation is: LL>Blockade>Familiar>Prey>Shock Clecnch>Heavy Attack. You only pull off around 1.5-1.75 full heavy attacks as part of this rotation, so the gain in heavy attack damage from netch is outweighed by Necro by a large margin…

    Ah… I follow you now. Thanks for the clarification.

    In your rotation above (very close to what I was thinking), where do you place the heavy attacks? Are you light weaving between the rest?

    Also, since you have some experience on the PTS it seems: Is a Charged Staff with Shock Enchant now competitive by dipping deeper into CP spell penetration?

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1964

    Khajiit Templar

    tkviking2 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    No no, I think you misunderstand. On the PTS the old meta is currrently unsustainable so I use a Heavy Attack build, except the problem is most of the build deals with non heavy attack damage. Rotation is: LL>Blockade>Familiar>Prey>Shock Clecnch>Heavy Attack. You only pull off around 1.5-1.75 full heavy attacks as part of this rotation, so the gain in heavy attack damage from netch is outweighed by Necro by a large margin…

    Ah… I follow you now. Thanks for the clarification.

    In your rotation above (very close to what I was thinking), where do you place the heavy attacks? Are you light weaving between the rest?

    Also, since you have some experience on the PTS it seems: Is a Charged Staff with Shock Enchant now competitiveby dipping deeper into CP spell penetration?

    I do Heavy attacks at the end of the rotation, i wait till I get less than 1 second on blockade before I reapply dots. I dont think non sharp weapons at this point are worth it, but we shall see…

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    I do Heavy attacks at the end of the rotation, i wait till I get less than 1 second on blockade before I reapply dots. I dont think non sharp weapons at this point are worth it, but we shall see…

    I see. Have a peek at the Elemetal Fury Build (for DK) that Masel has. It is pretty solid even pre-Morrowind. The way he spreads out the Heavy Attacks in between skills might be workable for a Sorc under the new meta too. If you end a heavy with a skill and follow it immediately by a heavy, the animation is really fast. I am thinking something like this might work (2.5 Heavies are about right for the duration of the Wall):

    Liquid -> Wall -> Heavy -> Familiar -> Heavy -> Clench -> Heavy (or light) -> Repeat

    With the proper bar cancels (need to experiment with bar layout)

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    Nosferatuzod

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1964

    Khajiit Templar

    tkviking2 said on April 25, 2017 :

    Nosferatuzod said on April 25, 2017 :

    I do Heavy attacks at the end of the rotation, i wait till I get less than 1 second on blockade before I reapply dots. I dont think non sharp weapons at this point are worth it, but we shall see…

    I see. Have a peek at the Elemetal Fury Build (for DK) that Masel has. It is pretty solid even pre-Morrowind. The way he spreads out the Heavy Attacks in between skills might be workable for a Sorc under the new meta too. If you end a heavy with a skill and follow it immediately by a heavy, the animation is really fast. I am thinking something like this might work (2.5 Heavies are about right for the duration of the Wall):

    Liquid -> Wall -> Heavy -> Familiar-> Heavy -> Clench -> Heavy (or light) -> Repeat

    With the proper bar cancels (need to experiment with bar layout)

    Dont have enough time though. You dont want to lose uptime on your DoTs and the best way to do that is to cast them in succession.

  17. Member Avatar
    tevik

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 6

    I hit 37K self buffed on a dummy parse last night with this build slightly modified.

    Equipment:

    5X Necro 3X IA 2X Ilambris Front Bar: Dummy Sharpened Lightning Staff Back Bar: Nirnhoned VMA Lightning

    Front Bar Skills: LL, Daedric Prey, VF, TT, IL Ulti: Destro

    Back Bar Skills: WOE, Power Surge, Ele Blockade, VF, TT Ulti: Overload

    Overload: VF, TT, Daedric Mines, Boundless Storm, Dark Conversion

    Rotation goes: PS, Ele Blockade, WOE, Bar Swap, Destro Ult, LL, Daedric Prey, VF, 2X heavy attack, LL, Daedric Prey, VF, Bar Swap, WOE, Bar Swap, 2X heavy attack —- back to LL rinse and repeat and reapply Ele Blockade and PS as needed.  Given that I dont have a Sharp VMA staff I had to place my DOTs on different bars.  I’ve worked hard at maximizing the rotation but Im pretty happy with the results.  If I got better with bar swapping and animation cancelling Im sure I could hit 39 K.

    I’ve tried out a few different monster sets outside of Ilambris and these are my results:

    Maw of the Infernal: 34K

    Mephala: 33K

    Valkyn: 35K

    Kena: 31K

    Depending on content I will run Valkyn or IG to replace Ilambris as I feel things move out of Ilambris storm too quickly.  I’ve tried a ton of different combos of Elegance, Necro, BSW, Willpower, 5X IA, etc… and the above was the best results.  My $.02.  Great build OP.  I’m hoping it will be even better post Morrowind with the potential ability to move away from the Sharpened Meta.

  18. Member Avatar
    boom782

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 93

    Can anyone tell me if this is normal or if I just have weird luck?

     

    I have run vMA about 30 times in the past 4 days and about 50% of the drops I get are sharpened but just not the two I need, inferno and lightning. I have a sharpened axe, mace, dagger, bow, sword, great sword, ice staff, and multiples of each BUT no inferno or lightning. Unfortunately I only play a magsorc and healer so all of those weapons are useless to me.

    I did get an inferno and lightning staff in nirn and precise but neither of those are useable, right?

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    tkviking2

    Adept

    Total Posts: 212

    Dunmer Dragonknight

    tevik / Masel92 : Yesterday, I squeed out 29.5K using tevik’s rotation and gear (sans the Maelstrom, which I still don’t have – so I run 4 x IA, 5 x Necro, 2 x Ilambris). That was without Elemental drain. I am definitely getting closer to the numbers you guys are getting and I can see the path to >35K. Thanks for all the tips so far

    tevik: Since you seem to have your rotation pretty tight, could I ask you to do a test for me with these setups please:

    • 5 x Necro + 5 x Netch
    • 5 x Necro + 5 x Spinner with Charged Staff on the non maelstrom

    Also, curious to know how you parse with Slimeclaw monster set and 3 x IA. I will try to do the same without my maelstrom to see where I get – once I can get a consistently good rotation. Also, have you considered double bar Aegis (get rid of Elemental Drain + Surge) and chugging Spell power pots. That should get you even better numbers I would think.

  20. Member Avatar
    boom782

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 93

    One suggestion for this build that makes it even easier is having boundless on back bar instead of inner light.

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