Champion System Q&A – Part 1

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Eric Wrobel gives us some deeper insight into the huge 1.6 update and its changes.

Hey there ESO fans, this past Friday we were treated to a wealth of information regarding the new Champion System coming in Update 6, and that has sparked some great discussion already about the big changes that are on the way. This past Wednesday some folks in Entropy Rising had the opportunity to chat in depth with Eric Wrobel, Systems Designer in charge of gameplay and itemization, about some of the upcoming changes. The following is a transcript of our Q&A session which we are happy to share with the community. I’ve broken the Q&A up into logical segments, but it’s a bit lengthy so buckle in and get your reading glasses on.

This is part one of a lengthy two-part Q&A session, and it covers the implementation of the Champion System in 1.6, Attribute re-scaling, and Champion System progression. Keep an eye out for part two coming tomorrow with a focus on ability changes, changes to trials, and gameplay systems like Ultimate, Synergies, and AoE caps.

 


Champion System Implementation

Hello everyone, and welcome to a community chat and question & answer session with Eric Wrobel from Zenimax, and we’re here with a bunch of Tamriel Foundry community members and guild members from Entropy Rising to chat with Eric in some detail about all the exciting changes coming in ESO Update 1.6 where the first stage of the Champion System is hitting the live servers. Eric, thanks so much for stopping by to chat, let’s start with an overview of what you do with ZOS and your involvement in the coming 1.6 update?

EW: Hey man, thanks for inviting me, I’m having a blast. I have a team of people that work for me for combat, and we’ve been making a lot of changes to the abilities.  We also work with the team responsible for Champion as well as doing a lot of work with itemization.

So Eric, why don’t we get started with the Champion System update in 1.6.  This Champion System is getting rolled out in stages, the stage that is coming with this first update is adding Champion progression, re-scaling aspects of the game, and updating abilities, but the portion of the update that is removing the veteran rank system is held for a future update, is that correct?

EW: Yep, that’s all correct.  So you’ll be able to start advancing your character and making them more and more powerful through use of the Champion System and then we did a lot of sort of background support and systems to allow the game to scale.  For example, we removed overcharge because what’s the point of being able to give yourself more health if it will just be reduced by the overcharge values.

What’s some of the rationale for doing this sort of staged roll out of the Champion System, particularly with regards to delaying the veteran rank removal?  What are some of the main challenges you face with removing veteran ranks that is the motivation for delaying that to a later update?

EW:  Yeah so, the biggest thing specifically with the veteran ranks is that all the itemization is really deeply tied to that, all the progression, and it’s just that it would have taken us significantly longer to put this patch out to you guys if we had spent the time to re-code a bunch of stuff and retest it and redo the progression. We wanted to get people to use the Champion System as soon as possible and experience it because it’s really cool and it’s a fun way to customize your character.

Is content going to need to be re-balanced when the Veteran Ranks are removed, or is the new scaling system going to do most of that work for you?

EW:  So the plan when we convert all of the items over is that you’ll be able to wear all of those items and they will still have a progression, but you will just need to be level 50 to use them. So you’ll still be able use all of the gear, but there will be a sort of hidden power level on equipment which creates tiers of strength similar to what it is now, so it shouldn’t actually be a huge re-balancing effort.

Okay, so that’s interesting, so to be clear: suppose that you had a VR1 Fang of the Viper dagger that you got from your first Cadwell’s Silver zone and you also had a VR14 version that you got out of Sanctum Ophidia, there’s still going to be a differential tier of power once between those two items once Veteran Ranks are fully removed?

EW:  Yeah, so you would have those two daggers and one would just say it has 200 Attack Power whereas one would only have 150 or something like that. It’s kind-of like item levels, but the infrastructure and stuff to do that is a significant rework of the systems and we just wanted to get new content and new stuff for people to do as soon as possible

Will there be anything visible to the player to see that one item is better than the other, or by how much? How will the interface communicate that a certain item is a higher level version?

EW:  Yeah, we’re still working on that part of it, which is why it’s not released yet, so there are still some questions exactly what will be displayed and how that will look.


Attribute Rescaling

One of the big aspects of Update 6 is the re-scaling of attributes that you are doing so the Champion System upgrades that players can purchase are meaningful, so that’s another really interesting piece of the puzzle.  Originally at the Guild Summit it was suggested that you might go with something on the order of magnitude of a 10x increase for the player attributes. Is that still the magnitude of the increase that you ultimately settled on? How did you converge on that degree of increase as opposed to something more moderate and what were some of the key features from an itemization and game play standpoint that sort of decided that for you?

EW:  So that specifically came out of the Champion System because the way it works is you can spend a pretty large number of points increasing specific stats, and once you are giving a pretty small bonus to a stat, like if you are increasing it by 0.1%, you’re not even going to see any change in that stat with the numbers currently on live. We wanted people to be able to feel like they are progressing their character, even though they are not getting a huge increase in power. Then we had to find specific numbers, because we didn’t increase every single stat by the same amount.  We had to do some balancing with different things in different directions because we changed some of the fundamental things about how the game worked as well, so there was a lot of playtesting and iteration once we got the base numbers we were hoping to use.

I’m thinking about my character right now, and when tanking this would put me at 40,000 health with Sturdy Horn active.  In fact, with overcharge removed, it will be a lot higher than that.  In your playtests what are some feasible numbers you are seeing in terms of the Health pool for an optimized tank character?

EW:  We’ve done some work to tweak those numbers. It’s not a flat 10x re-scale anymore, all of the attributes are scaled up to varying degrees, some more, some less.  For example, with Health, the ratio of Health to Magicka when you spent 1 attribute it would be 10 Magicka or 15 Health.  Instead of a 50% bonus to Health, we modified it to a 10% bonus.  We’ve done some tweaking so that’s why 10x isn’t exactly the number that’s true for every single stat. But you can get 40,000 health if you really commit to it.

Since enchantments and set-bonuses respect that ratio as well, are Health bonuses going to be rescaled globally to use the new ratio?

EW:  Yeah, we preserved that ratio for everything across the game.  So it’s not just stat picks, it’s also enchantments and other things you can get in the game like set bonuses.

Regarding the removal of soft caps, some players are concerned with this from a balance perspective and feel the system might be exploited. Have you encountered issues with players running extremely high Critical Chance or stacking insane amounts of Health?  I know there are still hard caps for Armor and Spell Resist, but what are some of the challenges in balancing with no soft caps?

EW:  There’s a lot of work we’e done with a number of systems to keep things balanced and in line. We have generally found that tanks are more survivable with higher health pools and better defenses, and to counter that we’ve made bosses and really powerful monsters that we expect tanks to handle do more damage with their single-target attacks. Another thing we’ve done is normalized ultimate. As you heard me talk about on Friday, you now get 3 Ultimate every second instead of a variable amount based on Critical hits, so having a higher Critical Chance is less of an imbalancing factor in the game now.

You mentioned that tanks are more survivable, does that mean the hard cap is still 50% mitigation for Spell Resistance or Armor?

EW:  Yes, the caps are still a flat 50%, but you are no longer being scaled down more and more the closer you get to the cap, so it’s more viable to reach those levels without having to commit as many resources to get there.

You mentioned bosses hitting harder.  From a tank point of view, I am scared for members of my raid if taunt ever drops off, particularly given how more squishy light armor will be. Are tanks more expected to tank all of the things in a pull?  Or can you leave mobs free? Have you done any work on the taunt mechanic and how it works?

EW:  To clarify, when I talked about damage earlier, that was more in situations where you are fighting a few monsters at a time.  Like in a trial boss fight, like Serpent or one boss and it’s just the tanks job to tank that one guy it makes it more interesting for the tank and healers because now he’s hitting harder. We have not done a lot of work on the Taunt mechanic itself.  I would like feedback on that to potentially adjust that, because I do feel that the taunt immunity mechanic is a little too punishing right now.

Right now, I feel like Light Armor arguably more durable than Medium because physical damage is mostly mitigated by the tank, while the party is being hit by predominately spell damage. Right now players wearing Light Armor can mitigate that damage better. Does the Champion System change how Armor and Spell Resistance are working to make Medium Armor more durable?

EW:  The armor value given by a piece now also gives spell resistance.  It creates an interesting interplay where it’s good to mix light and heavy because you get extra survivability with heavy and you can put fewer stat points into health and more into damage.

Regarding Light Armor and Spell Resistance; will Light Armor wearers still have an edge there because Light Armor has that passive that grants a huge boost to Spell Resistance?

EW:  We are changing that passive and are changing other passives that gave you armor or spell resistance.

Currently Heavy Armor isn’t used for too much outside of tanking. Do you think these changes will realistically encourage players to use that armor type for other roles?

EW:  Yeah, I think it’s more viable now for DPS to use some Heavy Armor to add to survivability. You can be a damage dealer in full Heavy Armor if you want, and in PvP the added Spell Resistance will be very useful.

Do you think that Critical Chance and Crit stacking in 1.6 is more advantageous purely for damage and less essential for overall gameplay with the Ultimate generation changes?

EW:   Yeah, that’s what we wanted.  Crit stacking was the king of the jungle because it didn’t have to listen to overcharge and gave you ultimate every time you hit, so it increased your damage in multiple vectors. Now it just increases your damage and gives you valuable burst in PvP.

How about the Impenetrable trait? ESO has tried to remove separation between the notion of “PvP gear” and “PvE gear”, but Impenetrable is really valuable in PvP, but completely worthless in PvE.  Is that item trait being adjusted at all?

EW:  We’ve made a lot of changes in Champion so there are some things that would be a nice thing to improve the game, but we didn’t have time and will have to look at it in the future. Having monsters get crits would make Impenetrable more useful; but if monsters did 50% more damage on a crit, big raid bosses could 1-shot a tank so we’d have to adjust the critical value of what a monster could do. Eventually I would like it so everything is valuable in both PvE and PvP.


Champion Progression

Everything I have heard about the Champion System so far is focused on account-wide progression. What sorts of tradeoffs were you thinking about when deciding between account-wide and character-specific progression?

EW:  Yeah, character progression involves getting bind-on-equip gear and once equipped you can’t trade it between characters, but with the champion system if you play on an alt you won’t feel like you aren’t advancing your other character by doing so, and you can adjust champion points on a character by character basis.

Take for example, a character that has been around since launch with hundreds of hours invested into it versus an alt character that just hit level 50, both characters seem like they will be just as powerful once Veteran Ranks are removed. Is there no portion of the Champion System where you are gaining some character-specific progression to replace what is being removed with VRs?

EW:  Certainly if you have been PvPing, you would have more skill points and likely more skill points in general as well as other advancement specific to each character such as the Mages’ Guild. I think it’s good to encourage people to play new characters and experience the game in different ways and make different choices.

Do you worry about the fact that once everyone gets an alt to level 50 it will be too easy to max it out since the best gear is all bound to account and Champion levels are account wide. It seems like there won’t really be any character identity. Is having gear bound to character instead of account any sort of consideration?

EW:  Yeah, if I could change anything about that, I think having more gear identity makes the most sense.

Do you think there will be a new meta to power up Champion Levels quickly? Currently the fastest method is to grind mobs for experience. Will you be increasing the XP rewards from some other types of activities, will doing trials, for example, be a valid way of getting that experience or is it going to be so ineffective to do trials that you might as well grind mobs to get a million more champion points?

Yeah, that’s a good point and I’ve had some feedback into the Champion System, but I haven’t dug into every single thing that team has been working on.  I know they did increase the amount of experience people get from Trials to make it in line with the Champion System, but I don’t know how much they increased those values by.  I know that the PTS testing is going to be extremely valuable for this, so it would be great if people could play a good amount and give us feedback on systems like that.

Let’s talk about Champion Progression.  In terms of impact of progression on character power, where have you guys set the bar in terms of design regarding the portion of your attributes that are coming from champion versus gear versus levels versus allocation points. How significant really is the champion progression?

EW:  In terms of stat picks, we’ve scaled that in Champion in a similar fashion that spending points in different things happens.  The first couple points in Health, Magicka or Stamina in those constellations give you a pretty big increase and then spending more points after that gives you a smaller amount.  That’s sort of the general philosophy of the system, and the reason we did that is to help keep a balance and a parity between the hardcore and the more softcore players.  Some people will have hundreds and thousands of points and some will have only have one or two hundred but there won’t be a gigantic disparity in Health, Magicka and Stamina because people have spent their points that way.

What is going to happen to the attribute points we were given with Veteran Ranks once those go away?

EW:  Yeah, that’s a good question.  You still have 49 points from going from 1 to 50, but there are questions like that we haven’t quite solved yet, so that’s why we wanted to release this first before removing veteran ranks.  We don’t want to take things away from people, so potentially we would let people keep them, and then people who made new characters after they earned the first couple of champion points, they would earn attribute points every 3 or 5 up to the limit that people had earned previously.

Are we going to end up in a situation where higher-end guilds feel that 1.6 just hit and we’re going to have to start farming Champion Levels immediately in order to be competitive?

EW:  I think that some people are going to want to play all day and get as many champion points as possible and that’s great, people should enjoy the game the way they want.  In addition to that, we have an Enlightenment System where you can get a rank or two every day with enlightenment experience that lets you get things four times faster.  So hardcore people will go faster, but this is a balancing mechanic to help players with fewer available gaming hours keep up with them.

When VR ranks expanded from 12 to 14, many people complained that there were required to grind more levels to re-complete their character. Do you worry that people will feel the same way with the Champion System, that they have dropped in level and now have to grind again? I know the maximum Champion Level will take ages to reach, but until you really hit the point where the effectiveness of Champion Levels starts to drop off a lot, do you worry that people will feel that they were down-leveled?

EW:  The testing we’ve been doing with veteran dungeons and trials are with people starting with 30 points in the system, which is about the same power level people are now at VR 14.

What was the motivation behind giving players 30 points for a VR14 character regardless of how many leveled alts they have on their account?

EW: We specifically didn’t want people to get a huge head start just because they played a lot of alts.  We wanted to make it as fair and balanced as a starting point, but still reward players for reaching veteran ranks.

 

43 responses to “Champion System Q&A – Part 1”

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    Merrak

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    Interesting read. Thanks for the info Atropos.

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    Skiserony

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    What was the motivation behind giving players 30 points for a VR14 character regardless of how many leveled alts they have on their account?

    EW: We specifically didn’t want people to get a huge head start just because they played a lot of alts.  We wanted to make it as fair and balanced as a starting point, but still reward players for reaching veteran ranks.

     

    I’m very happy they did this. Doesn’t make the people feel less useful for playing on only one character.

    The Awoken, currently searching for holy warriors to fight in the name of Stendarr! Check out the link and let me know if you are interested or you have questions :) ( http://theawoken.guildlaunch.com)

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    xaraan

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    Is there some sort of ban on asking about the decision to give 30 points to a v14 and 30 to a v1?  This is the third interview/discussion with zos I’ve seen where no one specifically asked about that.  (This one came closest by asking about multiple vets – but that’s not the same).

    I just want someone to specifically ask zos about why a character with 10+ zones of content ahead of them deserves the same starting point as a character with only dailies left to do?   That gap they worry about creating now between a v1 and v14 could just as easily emerge as those v1’s earn tons of XP doing silver/gold (those quests give a lot more xp than dailies, trials, or anything else tbh).

    I have 5 v14s and I don’t care about getting 5 times the points.  I simply expected that I’d get the equivalent to a v14 once on all of them and that it would be more than a v1 has.  My experience gain since completing content is a fraction of what it used to be (I don’t want to grind and don’t love to pvp that often).

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    Erlexx

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    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    v1 and v14 could just as easily emerge as those v1’s earn tons of XP doing silver/gold (those quests give a lot more xp than dailies, trials, or anything else tbh

    I did specifically ask about this, and they said that they went over XP on everything to ensure that there is a better balance in ways to gain XP. Trials were specifically mentioned as being improved in XP.

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    Atropos

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    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    Is there some sort of ban on asking about the decision to give 30 points to a v14 and 30 to a v1?  This is the third interview/discussion with zos I’ve seen where no one specifically asked about that.  (This one came closest by asking about multiple vets – but that’s not the same).

    Hey Xaraan, there was no embargo on this or anything, and we weren’t deliberately neglecting it (the elephant in the room), we actually just didn’t know anything about it. Our Q&A as well as others (Tales of Tamriel podcast interview, for example) were conducted prior to Friday’s ESO Live episode, so at the time we didn’t know that the 30 champion points that Eric mentioned was a hard cap per account, at the time I assumed he meant a single VR14 character would have the equivalent of 30 points to start with, but the account-wide cap on starting CP might be something higher than that and that characters less than VR1 might get something less than 30. Given the opportunity I would definitely ask a follow-up question on this.

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    xaraan

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    Erlexx said on December 22, 2014 :

    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    v1 and v14 could just as easily emerge as those v1’s earn tons of XP doing silver/gold (those quests give a lot more xp than dailies, trials, or anything else tbh

    I did specifically ask about this, and they said that they went over XP on everything to ensure that there is a better balance in ways to gain XP. Trials were specifically mentioned as being improved in XP.

     

    I guess I didn’t see that as asking that specific question, but ok; plus that’s a non-answer IMO on ZoS’s part.

    How will giving more xp for trials help me if I have a day off that I could have spent questing?  Or having more experience for any group activity?  That doesn’t do a thing to help with gaining xp for a player that prefers to quest.

    I’m wondering what sort of solo activities for a quester there will be that equal sitting down for a few hours to play through silver/gold quests?

    The fact remains that there is a significant portion of content available to a v1 vs. a v14 and that effects future balance.  I mean, I feel completely screwed here.  I’ll get to watch new players (not counting slow guys that will still go slow probably) fly past me b/c they have more options to earn CP when I’ve been really into the game since launch.  It was insulting enough watching people decide to run dungeons after 1.5 and level up undaunted to 9 within 2 weeks of release and have my guy that’s been running them since launch still only at 7 because I have less ways to level up that skill line having already done the ‘chieves.  Now this will be on an account wide, all game effecting, scale, it’s a big deal IMO.  So when i read interviews like this, I guess I expect someone to actually try and get some firm answers from ZoS on the issue and not let them dance around the topic like a politician.

    I mean, I get it, I write for another site (not straight gaming or anything) so I’m not trying to come all down on you personally.  Just frustrated that several different people haven’t been able to get a straight answer on this and they haven’t offered one up on the forum either.

     

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    xaraan

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    Atropos said on December 22, 2014 :

    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    Is there some sort of ban on asking about the decision to give 30 points to a v14 and 30 to a v1? This is the third interview/discussion with zos I’ve seen where no one specifically asked about that. (This one came closest by asking about multiple vets – but that’s not the same).

    Hey Xaraan, there was no embargo on this or anything, and we weren’t deliberately neglecting it (the elephant in the room), we actually just didn’t know anything about it. Our Q&A as well as others (Tales of Tamriel podcast interview, for example) were conducted prior to Friday’sESO Live episode, so at the time we didn’t know that the 30 champion points that Eric mentioned was a hard cap per account, at the time I assumed he meant a single VR14 character would have the equivalent of 30 points to start with, but the account-wide cap on starting CP might be something higher than that and that characters less than VR1 might get something less than 30. Given the opportunity I would definitely ask a follow-up question on this.

     

    Gah, that makes sense.  Considering that, then you guys did a pretty good job of getting info about the topic when it wasn’t even a big explosion of emotion yet.

     

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    Sadimir-Poutin

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    It’s irresponsible of them to specifically tell their customers that they are tracking XP, that players who hit max veteran rank and continue to play will have their XP converted to the champion system (with some reasonable cap), and then completely and totally renege with no explanation as to why, or even acknowledge what they originally had said on the topic.   So irresponsible in fact, that I’m still holding out hope that this is just a miscommunication on their part, that they plan to honor their word upon removing veteran ranks in the future update by granting those accounts a compensating amount of extra champion points based on XP.   It doesn’t have to be a massive cap, even a range of 3x to 5x increase over the basic 30 starter points would probably be enough to make most VR14 players happy while still only granting 2-4% of the total possible champion points, and leaving a ton of points that still need to be earned.   Non VR characters will still have a CP earning edge in that they can breeze through silver/gold and earn a ton of CP that will most likely be difficult to rival with other methods.    If they are planning on handling it that way though then they’ve done a very poor job of communicating it.   Right now just about everyone who has read the latest news, and has one or more VR14 characters is probably not very happy with Zenimax and thinks they’ve been screwed.

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    Recon

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    Sadimir-Poutin said on December 22, 2014 :

    It’s irresponsible of them to specifically tell their customers that they are tracking XP, that players who hit max veteran rank and continue to play will have their XP converted to the champion system (with some reasonable cap), and then completelyand totally renegewith no explanation as to why, or even acknowledgewhat they originally had said on the topic. So irresponsible in fact, thatI’m still holding out hope that this is just a miscommunication on their part, that they plan to honor their wordupon removing veteran ranks in the future update by granting those accounts a compensating amount of extrachampion pointsbased on XP. It doesn’t have to be a massive cap, even a range of 3x to 5x increase over the basic 30 starter points would probably be enough to make most VR14 players happy while still only granting 2-4% of the total possible champion points, and leaving a ton of points that still need to be earned. Non VR characters will still have a CP earning edge in that they can breeze through silver/gold and earn a ton of CP that will most likely be difficult to rival with other methods. If they are planning on handling it that way thoughthen they’ve done a very poor job of communicating it. Right now just about everyone who has read the latest news, and has one or more VR14 characters is probably not very happy with Zenimax and thinks they’ve been screwed.

    On the contrary, I feel as if any one who has invested hours and hours of playtime into their character shouldn’t be gifted a head start over players who haven’t had that luxurious amount of free time. This is a completely new system that we all get to experience for the first time, and giving one player, say, 150 points while giving another player only 20 or 30 points seems unfair.

    The idea, I think, is to put players on an even keel so that everyone, both new players and old, can equally take part in and enjoy a fresh gaming experience.

    Keep in mind, this is just part 1 of the Q&A. Part 2 should reveal some more info that may make you a bit happier with the system they’re implementing. Either way, I’m stoked and I feel like I picked a great time to resub!

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    Leon119

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    i would assume that after they remove vr ranks we will get compensated for the experience. if someone gets a chance to ask about this it would solve much of the confusion at ESO forums atm.

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    Sark

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    The hard cap on account CP IS your even slate.  But the idea that a person who has been playing solid since launch should have the same starting point as someone who’s resubscribing 2 days ago is inherently wrong.  Yes those vr 14s should be rewarded for their time, regardless the reasons  they had it and someone else did not.  Farmers A harvests 50 nodes, farmer B takes 2 months off and only farms 5 nodes,   according to your logic , farmer B should have just as much ore as farmer A,   And that is incorrect.  This is not a new gameplay experience, this is a retcon and revamp of an existing mechanic.

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    Dominoid73

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    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    Is there some sort of ban on asking about the decision to give 30 points to a v14 and 30 to a v1? This is the third interview/discussion with zos I’ve seen where no one specifically asked about that. (This one came closest by asking about multiple vets – but that’s not the same).

     

    Because VR still exist. You are still just as “more powerful” than a VR1 as a VR14 in the CS. When VR are removed and IF higher ranked players aren’t given something more than a lower ranked player, then a complaint would make more sense. But not now.

     

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    pieratsos

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    As long as VR still exist it would be unfair to give VR14 characters more champion points. I know its frustrating because of the time you spent in the game but think of it more rationally. VR14 characters are already much stronger than VR1 characters. Giving them more champion points would make them even stronger. How is that fair?  And even when VR  are removed you will keep the VR14 items  which would still be much stronger than VR1 items.  So basically whether you get more champion points whether you dont, you will still be stronger. And since you get the same amount of XP regardless of which activity you do i dont see where is the problem.

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    xaraan

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    Dominoid73 said on December 23, 2014 :

    xaraan said on December 22, 2014 :

    Is there some sort of ban on asking about the decision to give 30 points to a v14 and 30 to a v1? This is the third interview/discussion with zos I’ve seen where no one specifically asked about that. (This one came closest by asking about multiple vets – but that’s not the same).

    Because VR still exist. You are still just as “more powerful” thana VR1 as a VR14 in the CS. When VR are removed and IF higher ranked players aren’t given something more than a lower ranked player, then a complaint would make more sense. But not now.

     

    Well, the jist of my “complaint” is not getting a response from ZoS about whether this is, in fact true.  (And there are parts of that theory that don’t quite make sense- like what happens to all those who are v1 at 1.6, but v14 at 1.7 when vet levels are removed – do they get points for vet levels plus all the points they earned doing content that other vets have already done).

    The other part of my complaint is that the whole ‘starting players off in same place’ is B.S. (not now with VR in place, but if it washes out that way when they are removed).  Sure, a lot of players that are behind love it, if my team was behind in half time and they said they were taking half the other teams points away to make the game more even, I’m sure I’d be much more excited about the idea than the other team.  And some people not caring, no matter which side they are on, does not = fair however.  And the thing about games is they get less fun the less fair they are.

    Do I expect an obscene amount of points for being ahead – no, but I do think there should be a difference.  I level mostly by playing quests – my v14s have no quests to do.  Someone with one v1 has all the silver and gold to do on that and 7 other slots if they wish.  Dailies do not give the same level of xp and are mostly group related – there is no other ‘solo’ play like questing available that earns xp at the rate doing the main quest does.  So if they do not end up offering something more when the vet system goes away, then I think it would be a bit unfair and offer a chance for those behind to soon enough be the ones ahead (same problem they want to avoid, just different group) just like those that didn’t do dungeons much were able to get ahead in the undaunted skill lines b/c they still had plenty of achievements to complete.

    For players that play pvp or grind, they won’t see a huge effect.  But questers like myself could.  I’m well aware of the huge difference in xp gain speed when you are wondering around trying to find stuff to do, or waiting for 3 (or 11) other guys to get online to run content.  It’s really fast to go through the main questline and turning in those quests gives very good xp vs anything else in the game if you do it in a focused manner.  At this point, their comment about “normalizing” xp gains for every activity doesn’t solve this gap.  There is nothing my v14 can do solo in the game when I like questing and not grinding or pvp to equal a v1 having access to go through silver/gold non-stop if they desire.

    And like I said, the main issue is they aren’t saying that we are getting more points.  Hundreds of times the question has been asked.  Gina did a huge post yesterday to explain things, repeated all the other stuff and completely skipped that part.  That doesn’t give me confidence.  Even if they said ‘there will be something done, we just don’t have details yet’ would be a good enough answer for most.

  15. Profile Photo
    Davadin

    Expert

    Total Posts: 389

    Nord Dragonknight

    When a VR1 and VR14 players both get 30 points, the VR14 will complaint.

    This has *nothing* to do with  the fact that come patch 1.6.1 or 1.7 or whatever, that MAYBE, the VR14 gets more points by default.

    NOTHING.

    Nor it has anything to do with the fact VR14 will still be a very much more powerful VR14 than the VR1.

     

    nothing.

     

    It’s just human nature.

  16. Profile Photo
    Recon

    Expert

    Total Posts: 290

    Redguard Nightblade

    Entropy Rising

    Taken from the ESO Official Forums located here:

    ZoS_GinaBruno said on :

    Hi everyone,

    As many of you know, the Champion System is designed to be a replacement for the Veteran System. Internally, we have been implementing and testing the Champion System for the last few months. During that iteration time we’ve learned a lot. This changed some of our intended launch goals for the system. Specifically of concern is the number of Champion Points earned before the system launches. Here are four of the most salient points with regards to the number of Champion Points earned when we launch phase 3 with Update 6 and the reasons for the change:

    1. The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

    One more thing you should keep in mind is that our lives aren’t being turned upside down just because a patch is coming out, so we’re all probably going to be investing the same amount of time into the game as we have in the past.

    Those players who have always had time to play will still pull ahead, as they’ve always done, and those players who have to juggle hectic time schedules will hopefully be compensated by the Enlightenment system in such a way that they feel like they’re not being left in the dust. On the other hand, they shouldn’t be racking up tons Champion points by virtue of not playing the game, either.

    Given every thing we’ve learned about 1.6 and beyond, I firmly believe this is the best approach to the implementation of the Champion system. If players who’ve been able to invest more time were compensated for all of their hours played upon removal of the VR system in addition to having had more time to gain more Champion points pre-removal just based on their schedule or lifestyle, then the playing field would definitely not be level. Whether the Enlightenment system can prevent this or not is something we can only speculate on.

    It’s not in ZoS’ best interest to give every dedicated, all-character-slots-full-of-VR14s-with-maxed-out-stats players a significant boost over those who haven’t had the time, and it would negatively impact the longevity of the system they’re implementing specifically to fix the lame VR system we’ve had to deal with since launch.

    To put it bluntly, you’ve already invested the time and now you have to invest some more because there’s a lot more to do and all this cool stuff isn’t just going to be handed to you for free. Sorry ’bout it.

    Xbox One | NA MegaserverAldmeri Dominion
    Gamertag: ReallyRecon
    Recon – VR14 Redguard Nightblade

    Currently inactive on PC.

  17. Profile Photo
    TalosSeptim

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 71

    Orc Dragonknight

    Recon said on December 23, 2014 :

    Taken from the ESO Official Forums located here:

    ZoS_GinaBruno said on :

    Hi everyone,

    As many of you know, the Champion System is designed to be a replacement for the Veteran System. Internally, we have been implementing and testing the Champion System for the last few months. During that iteration time we’ve learned a lot. This changed some of our intended launch goals for the system. Specifically of concern is the number of Champion Points earned before the system launches. Here are four of the most salient points with regards to the number of Champion Points earned when we launch phase 3 with Update 6 and the reasons for the change:

    1. The system needs to be integrated in phases, leaving the Veteran Ranks in place for phase 3.Because the Champion System is layered on top of the Veteran System, the power differential between players from Veteran Rank 1 to Veteran Rank 14 still exists. There are many reasons we haven’t fully eliminated Veteran Ranks, chiefly a sense of progression in character and itemization progression. In the current phase that progression still exists. Layering a second progression can exacerbate player separation issues, especially when there is a lot of variance in the Champion System introduction. This phased-in approach is good for the game, but with dual progression post-50, it means we have to be even more careful when making changes.

    One more thing you should keep in mind is thatour lives aren’t being turned upside down just because a patch is coming out, so we’re all probably going to be investing the same amount of time into the game as we have in the past.

    Those players who have always had time to play will still pull ahead, as they’ve always done, and those players who have to juggle hectic time schedules willhopefullybe compensated by the Enlightenment system in such a way that they feel like they’re not being left in the dust. On the other hand, theyshouldn’t be racking up tons Champion points by virtue of not playing the game, either.

    Given every thing we’ve learned about 1.6 and beyond, I firmly believe this is the best approach to the implementation of the Champion system. If players who’ve been able to invest more time were compensated for all of their hours played upon removal of the VR systemin addition to having had more time to gain more Champion points pre-removal just based on their schedule or lifestyle, then the playing field woulddefinitely not be level. Whether the Enlightenment system can prevent this or not is something we can only speculate on.

    It’s not in ZoS’ best interest to give every dedicated, all-character-slots-full-of-VR14s-with-maxed-out-statsplayers a significant boost over those who haven’t had the time, and it would negatively impact the longevity of the system they’re implementing specifically to fix the lame VR system we’ve had to deal with since launch.

    To put it bluntly, you’ve already invested the time and now you have to invest some morebecause there’s a lot more to do and all this cool stuff isn’t justgoing to be handed to you for free. Sorry ’bout it.

    Recon.  It’s the fact that ZoS

    A.  Misled the community in the 1.5 patch notes and B. Completionists have shot themselves in the foot for  Taking ZoS’s word that they would reward players for the Xp that they promised in A.

    For a new v14 it’s not a big deal but for someone that has nothing else to do to lvl., it kind of sucks.  Who needs bugs when you can create your own PR nightmare?


    Mr T the DK

    v14 DPS/Tank/Heals

    Boethia’s Scythe 

    Serpent Slayer

    KaiZen


  18. Member Avatar
    Varicite

    Master

    Total Posts: 781

    TalosSeptim said on December 23, 2014 :

    B. Completionists have shot themselves in the foot for Taking ZoS’s word that they would reward players for the Xp that they promised in A.

    This is kind of an ongoing issue w/ the dev team, unfortunately.

    “Hey guys, you should do this thing, it’s A-OK and you will be rewarded!”

    Players:  “Cool, let’s do it!”

    Devs, 1 month later:  “Hey guys, we’re changing it again, we hope you didn’t do that thing because you’re screwed if you did  : D”

    Players:  “…….”

    I see where they’re coming from, but how they went about it is crappy to say the least.  I’ve got multiple VR level toons, and don’t honestly mind the hard cap on CP, but I do very much mind being constantly lied to by people that I’m paying.

  19. Profile Photo
    Stalwart385

    Expert

    Total Posts: 353

    Breton Dragonknight

    Thanks for this interview. This is why you guys are the best.

    Some of the answers were lacking while some really helpful. Can’t wait to see the rest of it.

  20. Member Avatar
    pieratsos

    Adept

    Total Posts: 207

    People are mostly complaining about their extra XP which will be “lost”.  But thats far from the truth. Their extra XP rewarded them with more skill points, more attribute points, better armor,  weapons etc and they will still keep these things. So their progress in VR  wont be lost even when VR is removed. And I think people know this. They just use it as an excuse for being cheated when they were promised more CP points. Im not saying ZOS did good. But they didnt exactly lie either. They miscalculated. They shouldnt promise anything to anyone but its a huge update which is been tested for months and things change constantly. Point is whether they lied or not the changes are fair. Asking them to allow you to keep your VR progress and give you extra champion progress without even playing the champion system is absurd and unfair.

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