AvA Q&A Breakdown

Today, we were given some details regarding the Alliance vs. Alliance systems that are going to play a huge part of Elder Scrolls Online. While some of the information that was released today are bits and pieces that we have heard earlier, there are a couple of nice nuggets of information that are buried within the Ask Us Anything article.  I will be responding to each point with my thoughts and analysis in this article.

daoc-siege

Siege weapons (battering rams) in Dark Age of Camelot.

How are siege weapons constructed? Do you need special resources? Are siege weapons mobile or stationary? – By Eric Aholou

Siege weapons can be obtained and constructed by anyone that has the Alliance Points to purchase them. You won’t need any other resources to buy them and deploy them all on your own. As for mobility: rams are mobile, and ballistae, catapults, and trebuchets can be packed up after they’re deployed so that they can be repositioned.

As the screenshot above shows, siege weapons are not a new concept in MMOs.  In fact, I don’t think that I am alone in saying that I’m not surprised that they are coming out and ‘confirming’ siege weapons for AvA.  Since the game was first announced, it seemed obvious to me that this game would take a lot of inspiration from Dark Age of Camelot (DAoC), especially with someone like Matt Firor being at the helm of the project.  The part of this question that did surprise me was the announcement that Alliance Points would be a type of currency used to purchase siege weapons.  My original thoughts were that Alliance Points would be a lot like Realm Points in DAoC, a type of experience that you acquired in Realm vs. Realm (RvR) play that allowed you to gain Realm Ranks and unlock new skills and abilities.  Thanks to a later question, we know that there are Alliance Ranks, but it will be interesting to see how exactly these ranks are going to be obtained.

A group of four people is a rather small force in PvP with major PvP guilds having 20+ players online simultaneously. Will there be an alternative group size? – By Eric Aholou

Yes, there will be groups of larger sizes than four. We’ll have more details for you about that later.

The group size being four people was something discussed in an earlier Ask Us Anything, but we are given a small tidbit that there are going to be larger groups, or raids. I’m not sure that this is something that is surprising to anyone who has played an MMORPG in the past. Expecting AvA content to consist of four-man groups would be a bad design decision insofar as it would make coordinating the sieging or defending of keeps, or other important objectives far more chaotic.

Allowing for more players to be a part of the same raid, allows for more organized play on a larger level, and allows for players that enjoy that type of play style to have their fun. This also doesn’t stop a player from getting a couple of friends together in a small group and try to pick fights with other small groups. 8V8 fights in DAoC were quite popular at one time, and still remain a popular pastime for players who still play the game. Whether ESO can recreate that same feeling with their 4v4 structure is still up for debate, but I hope that they can achieve something close to it.

As a serious roleplayer from multiple games and guilds/communities, I find it essential for immersion to have places to chat and roleplay with my friends and strangers such as taverns and unique open-spaced and furnished buildings. Will there be open-spaced buildings in the major cities and outside them? – By Ryan Houghton

There are lots of taverns in the game, and many places for large gatherings of people.

This question really surprised me, as I don’t think it has anything to do with AvA. I think someone just needed to fit in one more question to round out the AUA, but I think it could’ve been saved to have a larger RP-oriented AUA to cater to that population. That being said, it’s already been mentioned previously that players can go into houses, so having taverns isn’t a big surprise. At the very least, it should provide players who wish to engage in roleplaying a number of areas to enjoy that type of play.

It has been mentioned multiple times that players can invade areas surrounding enemy keeps in order to starve them of resources. What kinds of resources are these, and how will they affect gameplay? – By Eric Duey

The three resources around a keep (lumber mills, farms, and mines) fuel its upgrade process. Lumber mills help make keep doors stronger and allow them to repair themselves automatically. Farms make keep guards tougher and stronger, and mines help reinforce the walls, making them harder to destroy and allowing them to repair themselves over time as well. Taking control of resources around keeps also shuts off various patrols in the vicinity, so it’s always advantageous to take resources before laying siege to the keep itself.

I thought that this was a really cool, and it shows me that they are trying to have a more tactical approach to keep sieging than other MMOs, such as Warhammer Online. It looks like it will be vital for an Alliance to maintain their resources for as long as possible in order to have their keeps remain at full strength (making it harder for the other Alliances to siege them). I’m curious if these resources can be invested in in some way to add guards, or to make them tougher to capture.

daoc-rw-bonuses

Realm War bonuses in DAoC.

The biggest incentives for capturing and holding keeps are the benefits and perks that players will receive from ownership of that territory. Can you elaborate at this time what these will be? – By Eric Duey

While we aren’t ready to reveal the specifics yet, you and your Alliance will receive benefits which last only so long as your Alliance retains ownership of the territory.

Veterans of DAoC will remember that their as their realm acquired more and more keeps, their realm was awarded with a variety of bonuses that had an effect on every member of the realm. The realm owning relics also provided serious benefits to realm members, if their realm owned the relic of another realm. It seems that Zenimax is trying to dig into the old magic of DAoC here, and encourage realms to push for keeps in order to get more and more buffs.

While, Zenimax isn’t telling us what exactly is being offered in terms of strength, I think that we can make an educated guess that the bonuses in ESO won’t be too far off the mark from what DAoC provides.  Do I believe that they will award an XP or Coin Drop bonus for realms that own a certain number of keeps?  It’s an easy and immediate bonus for everyone in the realm, especially those who are leveling up in Cyrodiil through RvR.  The critical hit percentage bonuses might be more than Zenimax is willing to do, but we shall see.

I’m just really excited to see that they are going this route.  Give us reasons to take and hold more and more keeps.  Having tangible benefits to hold keeps rather than making them the loot pinatas that Warhammer Online had is a great decision, and something that should ensure that AvA in Cyrodiil remains interesting for a lengthy period of time.

Will there be a PvP ranking system? If so, will it grant titles, gear, skills, or additional stats? – By Kevin Kent

Yes, there will be a ranking system. You can earn Alliance Ranks, which grant titles and let you purchase weapons and armor. There’s also a PvP skill line that you can get new abilities from—we’ll have more details about that later.

 

Will I be able to level from 10 to 50 in Cyrodiil at a comparable pace to someone who levels doing PvE? – By Micah Hood

Leveling speed in PvP is not as consistent as leveling through PvE due to the nature of enemy player population. However, there are lots of activities in Cyrodiil that can supplement PvP combat, like questing and exploring. You can encounter players from the enemy Alliances throughout Cyrodiil, so there’s always potential for conflicts.

I’m combining both of these questions into a single response, primarily because both questions are things that we already knew, or had strong suspicions about. However, I do think it is important to point out that their answer to the second question is very important, and something everyone in the community needs to be aware of. Yes, you can level in Cyrodiil, but no, it won’t be as efficient as questing. This is probably going to be a sore point for some players, and while I can’t blame them, I can’t really sympathize either.

In my experiences in MMOs, it is very rare for PvP to be better experience than PvE questing, though the PvP path tends to be far more entertaining (especially Warhammer Online). The only game that I know of in recent history where this was not the case was in Star Wars: The Old Republic, and that was due to several bugs, and poorly tuned content, that was fixed very quickly after launch.

stamina

A stealther’s best friend.

How will stealth/sneak be implemented into PvP and how will players detect a sneaking opponent? – By Cameron Neilson

There are a few different ways you can detect sneaking opponents. For example, a player who’s sneaking is revealed upon taking damage. There are spells that can detect opponents who are trying to sneak around. It’s also important to remember that sneaking uses stamina, and you really don’t want to be out of stamina going into a battle.

The thing that really stood out for me in this response is how Sneaking is going to drain the player of Stamina. I think that this is an excellent design decision. Oh sure, it was fun going around in stealth everywhere in Skyrim, or in other MMOs that don’t really limit how long you can spend in stealth, but it creates quite an imbalance in PvP. What Zenimax is doing here is forcing players to use their abilities in a more tactical desire. Yes, you can stealth whenever you want, but there are times when it will be far more beneficial to your team and times when you are simply wasting stamina.

Want to hit that Light Armor-wearing Templar who is healing all of his buddies? Blow your stealth and try to sneak half-way across the battlefield? Or do you use your groupmates to help ferry you closer, toggle stealth and beeline to the target? Both options could work, but one might have a far higher chance of success than the other. This seems like yet another decision by ZOS to really add a more tactical approach to AvA, and frankly, I welcome it.

In Cyrodiil, will NPC towns be hostile? I know the Cyrodiil government is corrupt and evil, but will the people reflect the rulers, or will you be able to travel peacefully? – By Shane Ford

Villages are Alliance-neutral. However, guards will patrol a town if your Alliance has captured the nearby keep. This makes it safer for your Alliance to do quests in that town, but you won’t be 100% safe, obviously. NPC towns and villages will not be hostile, but there are NPCs in the wild that are definitely not your friends.

This is another thing that I am excited about. I am curious to see if they are going to go as far as making quests in a particular village only available to the Alliance that owns the nearby keep. I hope they do, because it opens up the ability for the other Alliances to go into these villages and slaughter the NPCs in order to cock-block the other Alliance from completing quests, as well as creating more points of conflict within the entire region.

While this week’s Ask Us Anything hasn’t been as exciting as previous installments, I hope that I’ve pointed out a few things that will give us all more food for thought when it comes to the exciting Alliance vs. Alliance content that Zenimax is providing us.

57 responses to “AvA Q&A Breakdown”

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    TheMasterchief

    Novice

    Total Posts: 19

    once you get alot of rescoures for your alliance  will the reset get rid of it ?

     

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    Nybling

    Grandmaster

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    Altmer Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    @TheMasterchief – We have no information on that as of this time.  Also, you may want to reread things, as you caught me when I mistakenly published half of this article. :)  Thanks for your super-quick comment though!

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    Corbulo Axios

    Scamp

    Total Posts: 8

    Breton Templar

    lol playing a rogue class is going to take some skill awesome. Aldmeri ftw see yall on the battlefield =)

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    BroScottcho

    Adept

    Total Posts: 219

    Orc Sorcerer

    ESOTR

    Great recap and analysis!  I have not been a big pvper in previous mmo’s but the more I hear about pvp in ESO it makes me want to do it.  I am loving the variety they are bringing to it.

    ESO Lodge – Elder Scrolls Online Guild Tools

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    Phazius

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    Dunmer Dragonknight

    Entropy Rising

    Some interesting things, particularly the last question.

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    Chupacabro

    Adept

    Total Posts: 120

    Redguard

    As the article pointed out, there’s nothing really unexpected or shocking in the Q&A responses.  It does appear that they are getting a healthy amount of inspiration from DAOC’s RVR experience, which I think is a good thing.

     

    It is interesting to see the significant restrictions they are placing on sneaking, at least in comparison to other MMOs.  It makes sense though, with everyone in ESO having the sneak ability.  If they made it too powerful, it could get pretty lame with large groups constantly stealthing around Cyrodiil.

     

    It remains to be seen what role sneaking will play, if we will still have stealthy scouts dedicated to observing and reporting enemy movements like in DAOC or not.  Depending how they balance the stamina drain, it could still work.  I could also see a role for larger stealthed groups setting up ambushes at choke points.  Fun stuff!

  7. Member Avatar
    INKS

    Expert

    Total Posts: 333

    Altmer Sorcerer

    I can not wait to see how well AVA works out. I hope they really do it justice as I intend to spend many many hours playing it.

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    Rae.

    Journeyman

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    Altmer

    Some of the insights are interesting and others are just plain expected.

    Some of the biggest things in my eyes and my opinions:

     

    1. I’m not too thrilled about another having to grind another points/token system. If I wanted to, I’d play any other triple-A MMO. This is a really old idea, and it really, really doesn’t need to be included in a game to make it successful. There is nothing wrong with buying gear for in-game money, especially in a system where gear would be controlled by your Alliance Rank. If I achieve a rank that rates a higher tier of gear, I shouldn’t have to play 800 hours in order to grind that gear set. I don’t mind if it costs a lot of in-game money to purchase each item, or if it even requires you to have a certain achievement unlocked, but I’m sick of points and tokens.

    2. The fact that they have come forward and said that you can form a raid, or warband, in Cyrodil is great. The lack of a warband size group made Guild Wars 2 WvW really, really painful. I was a little afraid that they would not include this, because they have come forward and said that you will never target allied players. You can’t target allied players as well in GW2, but they seemed to overlook the fact that seeing all your warband members on the map constantly and having a unified, controlled group was a big deal in WvW.

    3. I think its great that Zenimax wants to add a strategic element to the keeps and objectives in Cyrodil, however the game needs a strong tactical foundation when it comes to PvP mechanics. Strategic targets like lumber mills might help you take the keep faster, and certain serve an important role as a lightning rod for conflict, but PvP simply won’t be fun if there is not a strong tactical foundation.

    Lets take for example Warhammer Online, a game that failed spectacularly in strategic objectives but had a great tactical foundation. At the very surface you had 2 types of 6 man groups, which served as the building blocks all the way from small-scale pvp to multiple warband pvp. Playing it safe meant you brought 2 healers, 2 dps, and 2 tanks. Being offensive meant you bring 2 healers, 3 dps, and 1 tank. From here the levels of complexity expand, and the strong tactical foundation that exists in Warhammer Online comes through group building. The choices you make in your healing classes, dps classes, and tanks make a big difference to how your group plays and fights. There is so much tactical foundation that you can pick any 2 healing classes, any dps, and any tanks and make a group that not only has a specific purpose but excels at it as well.

    Now Warhammer Online suffered from a lot of balance issues for many years, and different classes were very powerful in different situations, however when you compare the tactical foundation of Warhammer Online to Guild Wars 2 you can see why a tactical foundation was important.

    The tactical foundation in Guild Wars 2 WvW doesn’t revolve around group building much at all, due to a lack of tactical tools. Don’t get me wrong, you can get pretty cute with a few setups with the right classes. (Elementalist shield pull -> Sylvari Roots -> AoE Bomb) However you are really limited in what you are able to build and make work. You can’t take a 5 man melee train out into WvW because classes don’t have the tool set required to survive in an enviroment that is AoE Bomb heavy. You can certainly take it out and be semi-effective, but you’ll soon get bored of running away from larger, AoE focused groups that you simply can’t fight. That is what a good tactical foundation is all about, giving players the tools, in the form of games mechanics, to overcome the odds, giving players the room to experiment with different class and team setups, and giving players the tools to turn the PvP combat into something complex and interesting, not into a big AoE slug fest.

     

    4. Getting bonuses for taking things is great, but what really fuels PvP is risks in losing. I’m a hardcore player when it comes to risk in games, and if I was in charge of making Elder Scrolls Online RvR there would be some risk involved in losing fights. When your keep is destroyed, its gone, build a new one. The flags don’t just change colors, or new guards spawn. The whole thing is burnt to the ground and you’ll realm is going to have to: 1. Re-capture the ground before the enemy starts building there keep, 2. Once you re-capture it you need to start building your own keep.

    There would be more changes than that, lock-out timers and other measures to ensure that the “zerging” side wouldn’t be camping both factions in at the spawn while holding the entire map. The idea is that your blood and sweat would be going into building up  your realm and alliance, and AvA would mean more than a few never-changing keeps on an ever-changing map.

     

    5. PvP ranks, gear, and armor is really great. I hope its balanced however. There will be a big debate about how the gear should be different. Fans of raids will cry if PvPers get better, or even the same gear stat-wise, for less work. PvPers will cry if raiders get better gear for not PvPing. Its a difficult thing to balance, and often times the intents of game developers don’t become reality.

    I’m sure Mythic didn’t intend the Tyrant gear from Tomb of the Vulture lord to be better then the Sovereign set off the RvR king, but for the longest time the best PvP gear in Warhammer Online came from a very long, very buggy 5-man dungeon. The same thing happens in World of Warcraft, where some players are carried by legendary items or heroic trinkets obtained by raiding. There is certainly nothing wrong with rewarding players for hard work and optimizing characters across different gameplay styles, but lets agree on some sense of balance between different content areas.

    ”I put on my wizard hat and robe.” – Rae ”Shockcock” Anaire

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    Julliarth

    Expert

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    Nord Dragonknight

    I’m really interested in learning more about the PvP skill lines, perks, rewards. They should do it in such a way that will keep players excited for a very, very long time, specially if the game requires a monthly fee.

     

    Our greatest strength is the adversity we have overcome.

     

    Our resolve is glacial, our might is forged in fire, and our courage, cultivated by the beasts of the jungle.

     

    We are Ebonheart.

    We are as one.

     

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    Hwrath

    Master

    Total Posts: 780

    Will guilds be able to claim objectives? I wonder if guilds that claim objectives will receive additional bonuses.

    I believe that Stamina is not drained if you are in stealth and not moving. Scouts could find OPs and post there to report enemy troop movements.

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    Rae.

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 69

    Altmer

    Chupacabro said on April 22, 2013 :

     

    It remains to be seen what role sneaking will play, if we will still have stealthy scouts dedicated to observing and reporting enemy movements like in DAOC or not. Depending how they balance the stamina drain, it could still work. I could also see a role for larger stealthed groups setting up ambushes at choke points. Fun stuff!

     

    Just one thing I want to say about stealth, scouting, and ambushes.

     

    Please, for the love of all things RvR, leave the stupid cross-swords off of the map.

     

    Force Players To Scout, or at least force them to relay/use intel.

     

    Its fine if the map updates when something is taken and ninja’d. Scouting is already an important role in an organized RvR group, however its really dull when I can open up the map and lead my group to the next group of cross swords. Right now RvR is not about hunting the enemy realm at all, its all “close with, and destroy.” It should be “Locate, close with, and destroy.” That’s just my opinion.

    ”I put on my wizard hat and robe.” – Rae ”Shockcock” Anaire

  12. Member Avatar
    Hwrath

    Master

    Total Posts: 780

    Rae. said on April 22, 2013 :

    Just one thing I want to say about stealth, scouting, and ambushes.

    Please, for the love of all things RvR, leave the stupid cross-swords off of the map.

    Force Players To Scout, or at least force them to relay/use intel.

    Its fine if the map updates when something is taken and ninja’d. Scouting is already an important role in an organized RvR group, however its really dull when I can open up the map and lead my group to the next group of cross swords. Right now RvR is not about hunting the enemy realm at all, its all “close with, and destroy.” It should be “Locate, close with, and destroy.” That’s just my opinion.

    Agreed Rae! The Fog of War makes ONLINE warfare fun ;)

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    Orgrisburg

    Scamp

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    I just hope everything is successful.

     

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    Sparhawk

    Adept

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    Altmer Dragonknight

    Mostly Harmless

    Thanks for the breakdown @Nybling!  While the actual Ask us Anything was lacking, you definitely put some thought and effort into this analysis, digging up some meaningful nuggets of information.  And YES, I owe you your damn $1000 gold.

    ”Winning isn’t everything, it’s the only thing.” -Vince Lombardi

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    Oldnut

    Journeyman

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    Orc Dragonknight

    I would like to know more about how they will handle the reset. Say DC wins the war, how would that benifit them? Will DC then start as the defenders of Cyrodiil. Or will we just get some silly message like “A swarm of undead and Imperials killed our guards during the night. We must go in and reclaim the throne.”

    It would at least be fun if there was a bonus to winning the war, as in the winners get to defend Cyrodiil against impossible odds. The longer you held Cyrodiil, the more your allience benifit.

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    Pattinn

    Novice

    Total Posts: 14

    Nord Dragonknight

    I’m really looking forward to the stealth gameplay

    Since I’m going all out as ninja ;)

    “Shunsho ikkoku, atai senkin.” -Japanese proverb [Half an hour in a spring evening is worth a thousand gold pieces.]

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    Erlexx

    Moderator

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    Altmer Templar

    Entropy Rising

    Nice job Nybling. A thought towards your alliance points question: I wonder if alliance points will double as “bounty points”. As in, you will gain alliance points that are a “lifetime total” as well as the same number gained going to a bucket you can use to spend. Sounds to be like you will be using alliance points just like bounty points except they just made the name the same for ease of understanding.

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    Erlexx

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 1659

    Altmer Templar

    Entropy Rising

    Also (damn you @Atropos let us edit article comments!), @Rae I would be totally OK with swords on the map, as long as they were generically placed for generalized areas. If you are fightning around Bruma with a force of X or higher then there will be some swords pop up on top of bruma to let you know that theres some action in that area (but people wont be able to just run towards the swords and jump in the action). Similarly, if you were fighting near a keep the keep would show swords although you could be anywhere around the keep (including its lumber mill, mine, or farm). Makes sense that players would be given some idea of whats going on.

    Note: The areas that swords appear would need to be spread out enough that it would take some searching(or a good educated guess as to its real location) to find the fight going on if there’s only one in that area. Something like this (I really do love google)

  19. Member Avatar
    Niurok

    Adept

    Total Posts: 125

    Bosmer Nightblade

    AUA is ask us anything?  Also for stealthing lets say that I do a lil pvp and my group ferries me to a healer and my plan is to go into stealth and do a backstab.  Now lets say this healer is healing and laying down the synergies renkeis skillchains whatever and if I’m stealthed and sneak up behind them would they even detect me when they are distracted by doing other things?  If not I hope there is like no rabbits or squirrels or rats running around the battlefield screwing up the stealthing since anything living or undead can detect a player if they are close enough because that would just throw the whole attempt out of whack.

    Death is the ultimate fairness!

    If I’m a douchebag well at least I’m scoring!

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    gtox

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1804

    Breton Nightblade

    Nybling said on :

    This is another thing that I am excited about. I am curious to see if they are going to go as far as making quests in a particular village only available to the Alliance that owns the nearby keep. I hope they do, because it opens up the ability for the other Alliances to go into these villages and slaughter the NPCs in order to cock-block the other Alliance from completing quests, as well as creating more points of conflict within the entire region.

    I am pretty sure that you would only be able to kill the guards of the town and the players within the town.  As he said, the village is alliance-neutral so it is probably likely that you could kill the guards and then pick up the quests in that town yourself before leaving.

    Personally I am glad that they aren’t doing it as you are hoping.  I don’t like the idea of enemy players being able to grief other players out of participating in the PvE quests in Cyrodiil.  It is one thing to kill the players while they are doing the quest.. but a whole different issue when they cannot even get the quest and are forced to then go PvP normally or leave Cyrodiil.

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