Pre-PAX Reactions and Musings

Hail Foundry-goers, I write from a chilly Boston hotel room on the eve of PAX East, capping a week that not only marks Elder Scrolls Online’s first convention showing, but also yielded the largest chunk of new ESO game information since the first press event during October 2012. The many articles published earlier this week revealed details on endgame PvE, AvA, character advancement systems, crafting, and much more. Collectively, this  information has largely redefined our perception of the game. Many of the burning questions which seemed all so relevant a week ago have been  answered, or replaced by even more critical concerns. After taking a few days to discuss and absorb the new information, this  article presents the thoughts of several Tamriel Foundry staff members, explaining their  perspective on ESO  going leading into PAX East. I hope the next three days will be extremely informative, and I am eager to revisit these initial opinions after seeing ZeniMax Online’s presentation of the game.

Atropos – Creator

Daggerfall statue

I have been excitedly pouring through new ESO content since articles began  releasing on Tuesday morning. While  it’s interesting to hear about a first look at new content, like the Daggerfall starting area of Stros M’Kai and hands-on with the Sorcerer class, I think the few wholesale changes to the game are much more  informative regarding ZeniMax’ intentions for ESO. ZeniMax has reacted to persistent community feedback, largely originating from the single-player contingent, shifting development priorities towards adding fully immersive first person combat animations into the game. Additionally, they  have devised a “new game plus” mechanic for ESO which allows the unrestricted  exploration of alternate alliance’s provinces. While  these features were often requested, and their inclusion seems like an improvement for the game as whole, I am forced to question what is the cost of this change in direction.

The first and most important apparent casualty is that of raiding. A quote from Matt Firor in an IGN interview claimed, “There are no raids; after all, that’s not Elder Scrolls”, a line which has spawned a furor of discontent among veteran MMO gamers (and rightly so). I believe it is critical for any MMO to establish an identity, and plant a stake in the ground claiming a fundamental purpose in it’s design. It seems that core philosophy centers around the alliance war which rages in Cyrodiil, and I am content with  ESO being a PvP-centric game. I do, however, strongly question the rationale for neglecting a mechanic which is the solitary source of stickiness for serious MMO gamers since large group PvE encounters were first introduced in EverQuest. I also wonder what happened to the Warden class, as well as the companion class to the Nightblade in the finesse archetype. In a game that seemed so naturally poised for six base classes, that ESO will now launch with only four seems like a forced change, and one that could likely be explained as the game’s animators being re-tasked to rendering first person attack animations for all of ESO’s combat skills. I hope that core MMO fundamentals like a broad and balanced class distribution and endgame PvE are not ones that ZeniMax views as expendable in their effort to appeal to casual fans who, ultimately, will not sustain their product in the same way that dedicated MMO players will.

Spider DaedraDespite these concerns, I have been very excited to learn  of several enhanced game systems. The additional depth behind character advancement with the addition of racial and class skill trees, is a welcome improvement beyond the rudimentary allocation of a single attribute point into health/stamina/magicka upon level up. Furthermore, the option to “morph” your skills into a specialized advanced version provides even  more meaningful choice behind class building. Additionally, the crafting system seems intelligently designed, and Paul Sage’s comments in particular regarding how to protect the relevance and importance of player crafting in the game were encouragingly worded.

In conclusion, I believe the biggest battle which ESO must win in order to be successful is to attract and engage the dedicated MMO gaming community by providing sticky mechanics for the types of players which constitute the lifeblood of a persistent game world. While seeing my hands in combat is a neat diversion which will be entertaining when grinding PvE quests solo, it ultimately does nothing to prolong player commitment to the game. I hope that ZOS is willing to prioritize game systems which will make ESO a resilient and compelling  persistent world, and not just a multiplayer Elder Scrolls experience.

Blade – Co-Founder

MMO communities are diverse, and are home to many kinds of gamers with different play style, however, players  can typically be placed into one of two groups, PvP or PvE. Let’s start with talking about the PvP players first. PvPers are gamers who enjoy the adrenaline rush from fast paced and intense combat against enemy players. In order for PvP to be successful in an MMO, there needs to be incentive to engage in combat with enemy players. The incentives normally come in the form of PvP ranks, and gear acquired through PvP. You also need to give players who enjoy PvP places to play, which normally involve instanced PvP, in the form of arena or battlegrounds, or open world PvP such as open world RvR. ESO is taking the route to stay away from instanced PvP, and instead focus all of their efforts on their open world RvR. Interviews in the past have confirmed the presence of Alliance Ranks obtained through your effectiveness in AvA, as well as gear obtainable with Alliance Points, but whatis the equivalent mechanic for PvE players?

Spider bossThe PvE player group is much more diverse, as more players tend to fall into this group. You’ve got gamers who enjoy playing solo, questing through the game content then crafting or rerolling at max level. Alternatively, there are players who enjoy running in small groups and completing smaller scale dungeons such as 4 man group dungeons in ESO. Lastly, there are PvE raiders who enjoy large scale complex scripted encounters. These are the players I am going to be focusing on. While I do understand that raiding is not absolutely essential, I believe that it leads to the overall longevity and success of an MMO. Many of the comparisons I’m going to be making are with World of Warcraft, simply because it has been the most successful MMO to date.

World of Warcraft does many things right, but one aspect Blizzard has done better than other MMOs is how they’ve handled raiding. While WoW features a plethora of other content to do, the primary reason people continue to sub is for progression raiding. During WoW’s 7 years of existence Blizzard has released 41 different raids in a series of 4 different expansions; an average of 10 raid encounters per expansion. Even now, WoWProgress records 15,532 raiding guilds are currently progressing through WoW’s scripted encounters. There is no surprise that even after 7 years, World of Warcraft maintained 10.3 million subscribers through the end of June, 2012. Is it coincidence that the MMO which understands the importance of raiding also has been top dog for 7 years? I don’t think so. I believe that if ZOS doesn’t seriously consider developing scripted raid encounters as a priority, and would rather release it after launch, they’re going to cause a large group of the MMO community to not even consider buying their game, and first impressions are everything. I’ve been an MMO and Elder Scrolls fan for many years. My first real RPG was Morrowind, and I was ecstatic when I heard the news about Elder Scrolls coming to the mmo scene. I want this game to succeed, and want it to be the best it possibly can. I hope some of you fellow raiders can stand behind me, and encourage ZeniMax Online that we want raiding to be more of a priority than it currently appears to be in ESO.

Byronyk and Fizzle – Hosts of  The Rubicon

In lieu of typing individual reactions, Byronyk and Fizzle recorded a special episode of The Rubicon, in which they express their thoughts on recent developments.

Isarii – Moderator

I, like many, was shocked to learn this week that The Elder Scrolls Online will not be including the MMORPG genre staple of raids, instead choosing to offer bosses tuned for raid-sized groups in the open zones known as adventure zones.  From the casual to the hardcore, a substantial amount of MMORPG veteran players enjoy and count on progression to be a part of their game, and without it, a game would significantly lose falling in their eyes; of all the information we’ve learned so far, this is the closest we’ve come to a deal-breaker for many.  I am one of the many players that aren’t raiders themselves, but can clearly see that failure to include such a highly demanded feature would cripple ESO’s marketability, and thus revenues, hurting even those of us who don’t normally participate in raiding by lowering the quality of updates that we all receive.  That said, all hope is not yet lost.

Khajiiti TownThe problem that raiders have come up against is multifaceted – there needs to be challenging and comparable progression attributable directly to a single, limited group of players, and there needs to be a steady stream of content updates of increasing difficulty to keep them occupied.  Unfortunately, all of these requirements are difficult or impossible to achieve with an open zone and world bosses.  There is a simple way to implement adventure zones that could address all these criteria, however: instancing boss encounters.  The vast majorities of the problem veteran raiders are now foreseeing come from the boss encounters being in the open world, available for multiple groups of players to overrun with a zerg, or completely disorganized hordes of players to tackle at the same time.  In the past, this has lead to the mechanics and difficulty being ‘dumbed’ down to accommodate the disorganized – completely failing in offering the compelling and challenging feat of coordination that raiders expect and require.  The philosophy behind adventure zones was alluded to by, Matt Firor, Game Director and creator of the now infamous “that’s not Elder Scrolls” quote (referring to raids).  Jokes about the repetitive dungeons in Oblivion aside – I fundamentally agree with Firor that The Elder Scrolls has always been about exploring an open world, and with adventure zones, we can get an open non-linear raid that adheres to that vision; it may even include the possibility of dynamic events.

This in no way requires that boss fights themselves not be instanced though, and that is the key.  Luckily, we know from Creative Director Paul Sage that ZOS is already considering going this route, so all is not yet lost.  With boss encounter rooms instanced, there will be no functional difference between an adventure zone boss and a traditional raid boss.  The mechanics can be challenging, and the defeat of the encounter can be directly attributable to the group of players involved – it cannot be overmanned and trivialized by multiple groups in the open world. Logistical implementation of the adventure zone could be done a few different ways to achieve progression.  Most obviously, adventure zones would need to be released in tiers equivalent to the traditional raiding model – where gear from Tier 1 is required to progress into Tier 2.  Optionally, they could also implement requirements for killing the bosses in order to create progression even within the instance.  For example, one could drop a key needed to progress to the next, or several bosses could drop items that combined into a consumable buff that is required to defeat the final boss.  These options are not necessary to create the progression raiders require, but they could help if the developers chose.  It is worth noting that all the content in the zone besides the raid boss is still accessible by and targeted towards smaller groups of players doing their thing.

Argonian PoseIf adventure zones were implemented with instanced boss encounters and progression through increased difficulty between zones, I am confident that they would offer all that raiders require to be satisfied.  There would be challenge from the ability to implement real mechanics that required incredible amounts of coordination, and with a limited raid size groups would be able to compare their progression honestly between each other, as there would be no way to cheat.  Progression in itself would be possible due to the linear path from adventure zone to adventure zone, as raiders competed to be among the first to clear the next zone.  With these goals easily accomplished, the only functional difference between adventure zones and traditional raids would be the format of the trash mobs – something largely inconsequential when it comes to the satisfaction of the raiders.  The only concern left is the quality and quantity of the content – and here we have a valid concern.  After the news broke that traditional raids would not be a part of ESO and that even the adventure zones would be pushed back until after launch, many raiders felt disenfranchised, and worried that the developers weren’t concerned with their playstyle being a priority.  While some of the specific complaints raised in this area are shaky (e.g. the complaints regarding voice over being implemented first), the feeling that these players have is very real, and does need to be addressed.  ZOS needs to make an effort to reach out to these players and let them know that they will have a place in The Elder Scrolls Online – and a nice place to start would be by implementing adventure zones as I outlined above.

What About You?

I think it’s best to conclude by suggesting that three days of PAX coverage will likely clarify the current situation somewhat. The developers will have observed the reactions within the ESO community in response to Tuesday’s press releases, and will be prepared to handle tough questions, particularly about raiding. Whether they openly address the issue and explain their vision for the game, or attempt to dodge the questions remains to be seen, but either result will prove informative. As for the rest, it’s up to the community and fans to decide what type of game ESO will become. While many of you share our concerns regarding raiding, there are also those to whom it is not as important. I am eager to hear the thoughts of the Tamriel Foundry community on where your perception falls leading into the PAX weekend. What do you most hope will be clarified or revealed in the next three days? Have you heard enough to make up your mind whether ZeniMax is moving in a favorable direction? Please leave your thoughts in the comment section below!

69 responses to “Pre-PAX Reactions and Musings”

  1. Profile Photo
    Holyelmo

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 65

    Breton Templar

    U guys are doing a great job ! Now go get us the info we need. Have fun at PAX. As a swede all i can do is to get in here to check for information from time to time.

  2. Profile Photo
    Hakk

    Novice

    Total Posts: 11

    Dunmer

    I am content with everything I heard till now except raiding.Most of my guildmates are troubled as well.Although TES isn’t like other MMOs it should have endgame content that would keep a guild playing it for a long time,I don’t care if they call it “raid” or adventure zone” or whatever but it should be there.Doing quests lvl 50+ in other factions’ zones is good for solo or small groups but its not what a guild needs.I’m really waiting to see what devs are gonna reveal in PAX about “raids”,for me and many others it might judge how much time we will spent in TESO,for others it might judge whether they are going to play TESO or not at all….

  3. Profile Photo
    Rial

    Moderator

    Total Posts: 2773

    Argonian Sorcerer

    “That’s not Elder Scrolls,” isn’t an argument Firor should use. Forcing your character into a faction based on his race is about as not-Elder-Scrolls-y as it gets. Morrowind didn’t force me into House Telvanni beause I played a mage, Skyrim didn’t force me to join the Stormcloaks because I played a Nord. In my opinion, ESO should have been designed around three factions, but they shouldn’t encompasse all the races and zones available and a character can choose which faction to align himself with. That’s Elder Scrolls.

    If four-man dungeons are Elder-Scrolls-y enough for Firor, why not 12-man dungeons as well?

  4. Member Avatar
    Venitas the Heretic

    Expert

    Total Posts: 284

    Breton

    “final boss” – I hear this word a lot when people talk of  raids.

    Consider this:  TESO combat is supposed to be about synergy & finesse mattering, with an AI that is *supposedly* ramped up to take advantage of it.

    “Final boss” just doesn’t sound right, there.  Oh sure, there’s adds to mess with the system; but still:  the possiblity of challenging large-group content based around something other than a solitary/semi-solitaire ‘final boss’ looms.

    ”Niche” is not a four-letter word.  ”Mainstream” should be.

  5. Profile Photo
    Tarkus Black

    Adept

    Total Posts: 171

    Nord Nightblade

    Aaaaannnnd Blizzard News at PAX iiiiiiiiiiis BLIZZ DOTA hahahahahahaha,

    anyway thanks guys hope we get to see some more good information that appeases the masses.

    Blood type: O negative

                                    - good to have around eh?

  6. Profile Photo
    Auryn Toola

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 61

    Bosmer

    No raids and and the look of combat animations is pretty worrisome.  Two things that WoW has very right and are staples of it’s success but TESO won’t have raids and seems to have clunky animations?  I very much hope that adventure zones adequately fulfill the role of raids, and that the combat has a smooth WoW feel rather than a GW2 feel.

     

     

     

     

  7. Profile Photo
    Holyelmo

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 65

    Breton Templar

    Yeah, the ” No raids” thing is worring me alot. Before that i only hade a few small things that botherd me. Mainly personal immersion stuff ( Only 1 healing weapon beeing the biggest ).

    This could be a dealbreaker for me and probably some of my friends to. Waiting for news from PAX :)

  8. Profile Photo
    Santus

    Adept

    Total Posts: 228

    Bosmer Nightblade

    Like I said on the forums on a “No Raids in ESO” thread, my raiding days are long gone; I haven’t got the patience it requires anymore. Being a raider in the past though; renders me able to understand the points you are trying to make in this article and I  totally agree  with all of you, that instanced raids need to exist.

    Even if the lack of this aspect won’t directly affect me since my interests lay elsewhere, it is going to in-directly affect me and the community as a whole because this may very well define the game’s population and that is something affecting everyone.

    If things turn out to be as we perceive them today and instanced raids are out; I truly hope that these open world public raid encounters, that shall be “replacing” the instanced ones, are SO good that they will create a new trend in the MMO industry; but hopes and wishes are hopes and wishes… instanced raids success is a fact.

    ”signature”

  9. Member Avatar
    Tallion

    Novice

    Total Posts: 14

    Orc

    I’m pretty sure I’m one of few people out there who is actually not that worried about end-game content.

    I cannot speak for everyone obviously but I for one would much rather have a really challenging 4-man dungeon then having to coordinate 10-20 men around and pray none of them mucks up a relatively easy tactic.

    I’d welcome a change of pace (but I also know many people like to stick to what they know) and if there are properly challenging 4-man dungeons next to proper world PvP I’d be satisfied.

    So imo breaking the mold would be a good thing instead of possibly getting another WoW clone with a nice coat to cover it up. Also TES deserves more then to become a WoW clone.

    With that I also love the comment of Firor that something isn’t going to be in simply because they feel it does not belong in the setting of TES, yes it might make of break the game but kudo’s to them if they’re ballsy enough to do it since let’s face it too many developers go the safe route of what works. If you have a vision of what a universe should be like don’t let other people’s opinions change it.

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    KhiDek

    Novice

    Total Posts: 11

    Khajiit

    About no raids; the way it was said seems more like a mis-communication to me. I think people may be jumping the gun on the whole “It has no raids!” deal.

    I expect after pax this weekend things shall be clarified and we can all un-pucker our collective asses.

  11. Profile Photo
    Julliarth

    Expert

    Total Posts: 334

    Nord Dragonknight

    I think the same thing. They are just not calling “raids”, they can come up with a different term and one or two new features and it will still be like raids, just a little different, and I like that! ESO must claim it’s own identity, away from WOW.

     

    Our greatest strength is the adversity we have overcome.

     

    Our resolve is glacial, our might is forged in fire, and our courage, cultivated by the beasts of the jungle.

     

    We are Ebonheart.

    We are as one.

     

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    Tingle

    Novice

    Total Posts: 17

    Breton

    Seriously, don’t write anymore “news” if you are going to bash on ESO not being a MMO at its core, stupid opinions like that make me rage.

    The first section of your article is not the opinion of the average MMO veteran that is searching for resolve in a new innovative experience that ESO will be bringing – myself as one, I am sick and tired of the same MMO pattern and I seriously love that ESO is “Elder Scrolls on a MMO scale” and not a “MMO themed like Elder Scrolls”.

    Who seriously still wants to power level to endgame and raid all the content  dry like WoW has been doing for so long? Look at every MMO released in the last 5 years, it’s all a “MMO at heart” – if ESO wants to be innovative and groundbreaking like WoW or DAoC was, it needs to distance its self as much as possible from the typical MMO pattern.

  13. Profile Photo
    Yevon

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1771

    Breton Nightblade

    First, thank you for taking the time to post this. I understand that this topic is very concerning to most of TESO community. I love to heal in progression raid groups and to be  honest if TESO does not have it in some facet I will probably not play for years like I have games in the past.

    I do not share the pessimism conveyed by the majority however. The reason for this is two fold. First, I believe it will take two to three weeks for guilds to have the number of players leveled and geared enough to enter an ADZ. If crafting is as important and involved as they are telling us then guilds will also have to wait for crafters to gather the needed recipes and materials to outfit guild members to par. Second, the idea of player customization is centered around skill points that can not be reallocated, but there are enough resources in the world for a player to fill them all. So to truly max out your character you will need to find all the “star or something” (forgive me the name escapes me atm) combine 3 of them and get a skill point and fill out your skill trees. Once you have filled in all the class trees (3), all the weapon trees (5 I think), race tree, world tree (1 maybe more), armor trees (3), and all the lore books that give skill points in all the zones then your character can truly play to its fullest and be prepared to meet the challenges ahead.

    Now with that being said, and taking into account that Cyrodiil will not be in at launch it seems to me that this is a tactical move on ZOS part. To me it makes sense to launch a game that is crazy immersive with a HUGE amount of character customization and content and ensure a smooth launch, something no AAA mmo has done in awhile. That will only add to the hype wave that launch itself creates. You allow players to build a buzz only to announce a major content patch 2-4 weeks after launch. To many players this will be proof that a monthly fee is justified. So with this strategy ZOS will have garnered millions of dollars in free positive publicity, built confidence in it’s mega-server technology, justified its business model, and pulled off a smooth launch with millions (presumably) of players all on the same server.

    Now I know that is best case scenario, but it does make sense. To me at least. I believe they are developing the content and have been for a while (since it was mentioned last year). I also understand the concern that resources have been reallocated since 1st person was recently implemented. What I do NOT believe is that somehow ZOS suddenly thinks of the raid community as “the red headed step child”. I think they knew the fine line they were walking when they began developement of TESO and so far it seems they are pulling it off well. I fully anticipate an announcement clarifying their position on raiding and it saciating those of us who enjoy progression raiding. Then they will have given the solo PvE immersion crowd a large victory and appeased the raiding crowd. Win win for them I would think.

    TL:DR

    I believe it’s gonna work out for raiders in the end and that the first ADZ will be released in the same patch as Cyrodiil.

  14. Profile Photo
    Tingle

    Novice

    Total Posts: 17

    Breton

    Mmm no idea how to edit a post here.

     

    They didn’t trade in raids for first person animations, stop saying that.

    The “Raids” will be there, just not in the typical raid scheme. There will be more than enough high quality scripted PvE encounters.

    They are very proud of their AI and monster system. People need to stop thinking like they are wanting to go on a grind-feast, they said very early that they are trying to make monsters and encounters more meaningful to get away from that typical MMO grind. Seeing people here shit their pants over “fears” like no-raiding just makes me face-palm every time.

  15. Profile Photo
    LooHaa

    Adept

    Total Posts: 137

    Dunmer Sorcerer

    Completely agree with @Tallion well spoken

    Respect creates friendships, Loyalty binds them. Hlaevi Family motto. 

  16. Profile Photo
    gtox

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1804

    Breton Nightblade

    KhiDek said on March 22, 2013 :

    About no raids; the way it was said seems more like a mis-communication to me. I think people may be jumping the gun on the whole “It has no raids!” deal.

    I expect after pax this weekend things shall be clarified and we can all un-puckerour collective asses.

    I agree.  I am pretty sure that it was taken out of context, and IGN probably hacked up the interview in order to generate more traffic (and advertising revenue).

  17. Profile Photo
    gtox

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1804

    Breton Nightblade

    Tingle said on March 22, 2013 :

    Seriously, don’t write anymore “news” if you are going to bash on ESO not being a MMO at its core, stupid opinions like that make me rage.

    The first section of your article is not the opinion of the average MMO veteran that is searching for resolve in a new innovative experience that ESO will be bringing – myself as one, I am sick and tired of the same MMO pattern and I seriously love that ESO is “Elder Scrolls on a MMO scale” and not a “MMO themed like Elder Scrolls”.

    Who the fuck seriously still wants to power level to endgame and raid all the content dry like WoW has been doing for so long? Look at every MMO released in the last 5 years, it’s all a “MMO at heart” – if ESO wants to be innovative and groundbreaking like WoW or DAoC was, it needs to distance its self as much as possible from the typical MMO pattern.

    Please share your opinion without being outright hostile.  There is no need to “color up” your argument with curse words; it detracts from the seriousness of your comment.

  18. Profile Photo
    gtox

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1804

    Breton Nightblade

    Tingle said on March 22, 2013 :

    Mmm no idea how to edit a post here.

    They didn’t trade in raids for first person animations, stop saying that.

    The “Raids” will be there, just not in the typical raid scheme. There will be more than enough high quality scripted PvE encounters.

    They are very proud of their AI and monster system. People need to stop thinking like they are wanting to go on a grind-feast, they said very early that they are trying to make monsters and encounters more meaningful to get away from that typical MMO grind. Seeing people here shit their pants over “fears” like no-raiding just makes me face-palm every time.

    Source?  You need to have proof before you claim that things are or aren’t true.  This article was gathered by several people who do their research well and are using the available facts.

    Again, inappropriate language only lessens your own credibility to the point of there being little reason to share your opinion in the first place.

  19. Profile Photo
    Yevon

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1771

    Breton Nightblade

    Tingle said on March 22, 2013 :

    Seriously, don’t write anymore “news” if you are going to bash on ESO not being a MMO at its core, stupid opinions like that make me rage.

    The first section of your article is not the opinion of the average MMO veteran that is searching for resolve in a new innovative experience that ESO will be bringing – myself as one, I am sick and tired of the same MMO pattern and I seriously love that ESO is “Elder Scrolls on a MMO scale” and not a “MMO themed like Elder Scrolls”.

    Who the fuck seriously still wants to power level to endgame and raid all the content dry like WoW has been doing for so long? Look at every MMO released in the last 5 years, it’s all a “MMO at heart” – if ESO wants to be innovative and groundbreaking like WoW or DAoC was, it needs to distance its self as much as possible from the typical MMO pattern.

    1. Article clearly says “Reactions and Musing” which it clearly delivered. Also, its pretty ironic you would call something/someone stupid consitering your post.

    2. I think it is dead on and find it hard to believe you are more qualified to quantify the “average gamer” or belong to that group.

    3. There are ALL kinds of gamers and for TESO to be successful then need to alienate as few of those groups as possible, especially a group as large as raiders. Also, groundbreaking and innovative strides in any industry cause anxiety thats just how it is.

    Tingle said on March 22, 2013 :

    Mmm no idea how to edit a post here.

    They didn’t trade in raids for first person animations, stop saying that.

    The “Raids” will be there, just not in the typical raid scheme. There will be more than enough high quality scripted PvE encounters.

    They are very proud of their AI and monster system. People need to stop thinking like they are wanting to go on a grind-feast, they said very early that they are trying to make monsters and encounters more meaningful to get away from that typical MMO grind. Seeing people here shit their pants over “fears” like no-raiding just makes me face-palm every time.

    1. You can only edit forum posts.

    2. You have no idea one way or the other so you should take your own advice.

    3. You didn’t listen to the Rubicon or you would know why there is a valid concern with ADZ v Raid.

    4. No one said anything about a grindfest. You need to stop telling others what they need to do and stop putting words in other peoples mouths.

     

  20. Profile Photo
    Tingle

    Novice

    Total Posts: 17

    Breton

    gtox said on March 22, 2013 :

    Tingle said on March 22, 2013:

    Seriously, don’t write anymore “news” if you are going to bash on ESO not being a MMO at its core, stupid opinions like that make me rage.

    The first section of your article is not the opinion of the average MMO veteran that is searching for resolve in a new innovative experience that ESO will be bringing – myself as one, I am sick and tired of the same MMO pattern and I seriously love that ESO is “Elder Scrolls on a MMO scale” and not a “MMO themed like Elder Scrolls”.

    Who the fuck seriously still wants to power level to endgame and raid all the content dry like WoW has been doing for so long? Look at every MMO released in the last 5 years, it’s all a “MMO at heart” – if ESO wants to be innovative and groundbreaking like WoW or DAoC was, it needs to distance its self as much as possible from the typical MMO pattern.

    Please share your opinion without being outright hostile. There is no need to “color up” your argument with curse words; it detracts from the seriousness of your comment.

    Its just that when ever I hear how not “MMO’ish” ESO is, I rage – because what if Zenimax thinks that’s a valid opinion and something they need to work on. I would be so furious if they changed the game into a more MMO-standard.

    It’s the little and immersive things that will make ESO a truly new and innovative experience, and yes – I mean things like first person animations. Hell, I would pay 10$ more a month if I could have a housing, marriage system, adoption and even a music system – god how I love games that allow you to play music, Mabinogi and Lord of the Rings Online did a good job of it.

     

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