Misconceptions Regarding ESO

We are excited to share the first of many videos from Tamriel Foundry delving into the mechanics of Elder Scrolls Online. These videos will eventually consist of boss strategies, pvp tactics, class guides, and more; however, our first video is designed to clarify some of the misconceptions that frequently circulate regarding The Elder Scrolls Online. We hope you enjoy the video, and would be interested to hear your feedback in the comment section below.

173 responses to “Misconceptions Regarding ESO”

  1. Profile Photo
    Atropos

    Administrator

    Total Posts: 2995

    Imperial Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    Gundorix, thanks for your lengthy response. While I’m certain many people disliked DAoC, my own bias towards the matter physically prevents me from saying anything bad about that game…ever.

    Regarding the faction locked territories issue, this has become the deadest of horses that we are beating at this point. I am in favor of open world PvP and I would prefer unlocked territories, but the purposes of this video was to clarify for people who haven’t been following the game very closely what features are, in-fact, present in the game. I don’t disagree with what you’re saying here, I sympathize with your desire to see danger re-enter the MMO world, whether from other players or from NPCs.

    I do, however, stand by my claim that I believe Cyrodiil will be large enough that players can experience the open-world PvP feeling. I hope your concerns are dissipated somewhat once we get the chance to experience their RvR system for ourselves.

    Founder, creator, and developer of Tamriel Foundry.

    Guildmaster of Entropy Rising.

    Occasional Twitch Streamer.

  2. Profile Photo
    tenton111

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 74

    Dunmer

    Holy crap, Gundorix, how long did it take you to type that?

    By the pricking of my thumbs,

    Something wicked this way comes!

  3. Profile Photo
    Nybling

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 2113

    Altmer Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    I can already tell you that you are looking at the wrong game if you expect anything near EVE or UO.

  4. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    The intent of this game is to be a RPG first, and and MMO second. There will be significant investments made towards getting gear through dungeons and PvP that cannot justify losing loot upon death. Ultima and Eve Online are a completely different breed of MMO.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  5. Profile Photo
    Nybling

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 2113

    Altmer Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    You are incorrect @TripleB.  ESO is first and foremost a MMO.  That isn’t going to make a lot of TES fans happy, but it is what it is.

  6. Profile Photo
    Atropos

    Administrator

    Total Posts: 2995

    Imperial Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    I would like fairly strongly disagree. I would argue that ESO is an MMO first, and a TES RPG second. The game will survive or fail based on it’s merits as an MMO. Take a look at SWtOR for an example of what happens to an MMO that puts itself as an RPG first.

    Founder, creator, and developer of Tamriel Foundry.

    Guildmaster of Entropy Rising.

    Occasional Twitch Streamer.

  7. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    My understanding of the developers intent was to make an ES game that could be played with friends. Perhaps the key is interpretation based on personal interest. However, that was my understanding of what material I have had access too.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  8. Profile Photo
    Nybling

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 2113

    Altmer Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    @TripleB, you can play with friends, but this is more than say.. Skyrim Online.  This game will be much more like WoW or DAOC than it will Skyrim or Oblivion co-op.

  9. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    @Nybling Certainly. My interpretation isn’t necessarily that it will be a Skyrim or Oblivion co-op. The feeling that I get about TES:O so far is that it will be more immersive than its predecessors by combining the rich lore from the TES franchise with the MMO genre. Contrary my interpretation of the Dev’s intent, the aspect of this game that I am look forward to the most are the massive, multifaceted PvP battles.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  10. Profile Photo
    Thunderbow

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1038

    Redguard Nightblade

    All MMOs must be an MMO first by the nature of the technical challenges of making an MMO.  An RPG with multiplayer is really only possible with small groups.  Neverwinter Nights and Baldur’s Gate were RPGs.

    That said, most MMOs do not have roleplaying second, or even third, and some essentially don’t have any roleplaying except insofar as you are obviously not actually flying a space ship firing nuclear missiles at another spaceship.

    In that respect, TES needs to put roleplaying first, and TES first, MMO second.  Second merely means “not first”, not ” not important”.  Those aspects of an MMO that are needed to make the game playable and sustainable obviously have to be there even at the cost of lore or some break of roleplaying immersion simply because if you don’t have those things the game will either crash or have no subscribers out of sheer frusteration.  It is not 1999 anymore and people are not willing to put up with a lot of the sheer inconvenience of original Everquest.

    That said, TESO does not have to do MMO things in a conventional MMO way.  It needs to have PVP (for example) it does not need to have a clone of how pvp is in any previous MMO, any more than it needs to have an autoattack function just because it necessarily will have combat.

    ”IT’s HOT-DROP-O’CLOOOOOCK!!”

    The people sleep safe in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

    Nations do not survive by setting examples for other nations.  Nations survive by making examples of other nations.

    USA – Back to Back World War Champs!

  11. Profile Photo
    Lorelei

    Expert

    Total Posts: 303

    Altmer

    @jin

    1. This is not a Bethesda game.

    2. If this was going to be a purely pvp game, full loot might be fine.  My understanding is that it isn’t going to be and people being able to kill another player and take endgame epics are just not something that is ever going to happen. Ever.  With good reason.

    3. The sort of game you’re describing would, in my opinion, not be fun but more stressful.  I’m not a carebear but I don’t want to fear for my loot every time I walk outside sanctuary walls alone.  That sort of game only appeals to a very small percentage of the gaming community and frankly, it’s open to all sorts of griefing and abuses.  There’s enough of that in MMOs as it is.

    [Insert inspiring signature quote here.]

  12. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    @Thunderbow Your description more accurately describes my position about the implementation of TES:O. With such rich lore and content, I would hate to see the TES franchise gutted and made into a carbon copy of WoW. In this regard, I see TES:O as an RPG first, and MMO second. However, I understand that in-game mechanics like combat must operate within the scope of of MMO mechanics to preserve balance and playability. I just want to story of TES:O to preserve the epic qualities of its predecessors, and my understanding of the official and unofficial information released by ZOS has been a promise to deliver the feel of an immersive RPG “as” an MMO.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  13. Profile Photo
    Thunderbow

    Grandmaster

    Total Posts: 1038

    Redguard Nightblade

    You really don’t need to be able to loot your opponents in order to have exciting pvp, and how that experience is enhanced by the possibility and frustration of losing your gear is beyond me, and most likely beyond most players.  Most successful MMOs do not have the ability to loot items off an opponent.  EQ had only one pvp server at start, and it offered the ability to loot only one equipped item early on.  That had to be changed to “no looting weapons” because a melee class would be utterly crippled by having a weapon taken but a spellcaster would not.  Eventually, item loot was removed AFAIK; I was gone from the server by then.

    Full loot does not need to be there to promote roleplay; it doesn’t do that.  It promotes an all-encompassing play strategy surrounding not getting your stuff looted.  Even when you could lose only one item per death, people went to extreme lengths of care just to avoid that, taking actions that are silly and illogical from a roleplay perspective.

    There’s a simple reason:  In a regular RPG, if you get killed, you don’t care if someone takes your stuff because you’re dead.  In tabletop, either your friends take it and ressurrect you, or else then don’t want to or can’t, and then you re-roll.  In a computer RPG like Skyrim or NWN or whatever, you restore a save if you die.  Whether the NPCs loot you is irrelevant.

    Unless you make the game total hardcore; death = reroll, loot of corpses doesn’t make much sense except in order to promote that playstyle:  run around looking for people to gank unawares, or protecting yourself from that, and while it does unarguably offer a certain type of excitement, most people do not need an endless heart-pounding adrenaline rush, nor do they need the frustration and stress of having to rebuild their gear set because some jackwagon lucked out and found them 20 seconds after they almost died to 4 mobs.  The argument that people won’t coordinate on voice chat or whatever is singularly weak.  Really?  Full loot so that people will not make stupid decisions in pvp, and use Mumble?

    I don’t think many people would want complete hardcore either, and the simple fact is that for most people, being looted is not fun and does not enhance the play experience.  I have seen a number of these arguments in favor of it, and the term “complete trash” seems to appear alarmingly often, as well as the idea that full loot is the “right” way.  I don’t normally like to say what’s “right” and “wrong” beyond obvious stuff like “classes should be balanced” and “bugs should be fixed”, but if you absolutely need to be able to fully loot people in order to enjoy an MMO, there’s something wrong.  If beating other players is that important, try out Starcraft 2.  I hear of you’re good you can even make a little money…. real money.

     

     

    ”IT’s HOT-DROP-O’CLOOOOOCK!!”

    The people sleep safe in their beds at night only because rough men stand ready to do violence on their behalf

    Nations do not survive by setting examples for other nations.  Nations survive by making examples of other nations.

    USA – Back to Back World War Champs!

  14. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    @Melora Agreed.

    @jin

    1. This is not a Bethesda game.

    2. If this was going to be a purely pvp game, full loot might be fine.  My understanding is that it isn’t going to be and people being able to kill another player and take endgame epics are just not something that is ever going to happen. Ever.  With good reason.

    3. The sort of game you’re describing would, in my opinion, not be fun but more stressful.  I’m not a carebear but I don’t want to fear for my loot every time I walk outside sanctuary walls alone.  That sort of game only appeals to a very small percentage of the gaming community and frankly, it’s open to all sorts of griefing and abuses.  There’s enough of that in MMOs as it is.

    @Jin While I understand the adrenaline rush that results from a system like this, I feel as though a full loot pvp system would be too punishing for the target audience: players who are much less into hardcore pvp than you and I, who play the game to see results (gear and in-game currency) from the development of their chosen character(s) through investments of time and money into the game.

    A full loot pvp system rewards only highly skilled and highly organized players while punishing more casually gamers unfairly and would negatively affect pvp participation. There needs to be a middle ground, or else TES:O would become a strictly pve game to a vast majority of the player base.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  15. Member Avatar
    TripleB

    Apprentice

    Total Posts: 29

    Khajiit

    @Thunderbow Amen. I think you and I will get along very well on these forums, my friend.

    ”Men are but flesh and blood. They know their doom, but not the hour.”Emperor Uriel Septim VII

  16. Profile Photo
    dhodgs

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 93

    Dunmer

    I don’t understand why game studios making all these MMO’s won’t cater to the 2% of players that want to play 24-7 in PVP and be able to get all their best stuff off of other players’ corpses. It doesn’t make sense to me at all.

    This state of silent, shadowed war, of secret poisons and sleeping men strangled in their beds, of the sudden arrow and the artful dagger, has no end that I can see. No possibility for peace.

    Hail Sithis

  17. Profile Photo
    Atropos

    Administrator

    Total Posts: 2995

    Imperial Sorcerer

    Entropy Rising

    Two reasons:

    1. Less than 2% of players want full PvP with looting.
    2. Why would they spent valuable development time catering to 1-2% of their potential player population when they can be designing features that will strengthen the appeal of the game for everyone?

    In short… money talks. That being said, I would love to see an alternative ruleset server like DAoC had with Mordred, but I doubt it will happen.

    Founder, creator, and developer of Tamriel Foundry.

    Guildmaster of Entropy Rising.

    Occasional Twitch Streamer.

  18. Profile Photo
    ArKaven

    Adept

    Total Posts: 141

    Breton Nightblade

    Maybe in time they will open up exploration of other faction territories and allow PVP everywhere.  What I’m mainly concerned about is how stealth works and how life without trilogy will be.  These are two big questions I have not seen answered in any videos, including this one (although it covered a lot and was a great vid).

    For example: How will stealth be penalized?  If all classes can do it, what will poor stealth builds look like compared to good ones.  I’ve only seen players sneaking in vids, not what that sneaking is actually doing vs NPC’s or other players.

    And on the trilogy:  Is it just a free for all in a dungeon, or is someone pointing out roles that need to be played for success.  It can’t be fun if everyone is attacking and healing their self with the occasional combo attack.  Having a job, and doing it well was a fun thing about teaming up.  If everyone just goes out there jumping around and taking turns attacking then healing themselves.. Why play with other people at all?

    You guys played the Alpha, can you chime in with some details about these two topics?

    I like that you feel ESO will stay true to MMO first, but specific classes having stealth and the trilogy are what many of us know and love about MMO’s.  I can’t imagine trying to do PVP with 100 rogues vanishing in and out or doing a heroic with 5 dps guys healing themselves and nuking folks. lol

    Any light you could shed would be greatly appreciated.  (BTW I base almost all MMO knowledge off WoW, I’ve played forever and stayed pretty loyal to the title so maybe I’m bias towards the good mechanics of it and do not know how other titles have handled said topics).

     

  19. Profile Photo
    dhodgs

    Journeyman

    Total Posts: 93

    Dunmer

    I know Atropos, sorry I haven’t found the sarcasm font yet…lol

    This state of silent, shadowed war, of secret poisons and sleeping men strangled in their beds, of the sudden arrow and the artful dagger, has no end that I can see. No possibility for peace.

    Hail Sithis

  20. Profile Photo
    Stormcrow

    Novice

    Total Posts: 22

    Orc Nightblade

    So you would basically like TESO to be a WoW type of game in terms of classes/roles and grouping. I hope it will not happen. There are plenty of clones out there already. Not that WoW’s system wasn’t any good, it was very succesful and for a while seemed to be the right way. However I hope for something fresh and innovative, but still approaching lore and role playing in the strictest way possible, to base your gameplay on choices just like in real life and accept the consequencies of those choices w/o whining and frustration. So far ZOS sticks to this (at least declaratively). Hope they will keep that way!

    ”When cities burn and armies turn and flee in disarray, cowards will cry: ’Tis best to fly, and fight another day’. But warriors know in their marrow, when they die and fall, ’tis best to have fought and lost than not to have fought at all.”

    ”You stole three deaths from The Red God… We have to give them back.”

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